Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
  #1  
Old 04-13-2020, 04:52 PM
Keysguy Keysguy is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Lower Florida Keys
Posts: 202
Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
Default Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?

I know we have had a lot of "what is it?" quizzes regarding hybrids or "species vs. hybrid" here but not so many discussions around ID of sub-species, vaieties and forms so I thought it would be fun to see what all of you with varying backgrounds and experience think of this one. Personally, I think there are options so feedback and opinions should be fun. For the novices out there, here is a fun example to get the juices flowing on exploring taxonomy and taxonomical rank in botany (headache warning!).

The species Guarianthe skinneri (aka appropriately, the Easter orchid) has multiple varieties and forms depending on where you pull your research from and I am trying to figure out what I really have.

I have had both of these plants for probably 10 years or more and I have divided each of them more than once since that time. Long enough that I have no clue where I got them but most likely source would have been a society member auction so they are also probably divisions of other plants. I have thought about doing this for quite awhile but it had to be timed for when both were as close to full bloom as possible.

Below are 2 pictures of both plants side by side. One from above and one head-on.
The one on the right was labeled Catt. skinneri fmr. alba 'Debbie' while the one on the left was labeled Catt. skinneri var. oculata. I don't think the oculata is correct and now I'm wondering about the Debbie too.
The third picture is a close-up of Debbie and the fourth is close-up of oculata.

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam1-jpg

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam2-jpg

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam3-jpg

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam4-jpg

From the descriptions I've been able to find, "oculata" (which means roughly "eye") is also sometimes referred to as "alba oculata" and should be entirely white with a rose or lavender color deep in the recess of the throat or the "eye". My plant has the eye but it also is NOT white. It has what I refer to as a "purple haze" throughout the flower parts. It really is quite stunning when you add in that beautiful skinneri crystalline shimmer.
It definitely is not coerulea, I believe semi-alba refers to color only in the lip so I'm wondering if it might truly be
form albescens (which roughly means fading to white).

'Debbie' is listed in most references as an alba form (as does my tag) but I have also seen it listed as a semi-alba which would mean coloration on the lip. Mine is pure white (no colored eye observed in any flower) EXCEPT maybe 1-2 flowers in a cluster (but not every cluster) has a faint purple haze just in the lip.

So......what say ye? Let the fun begin!
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 2 Likes
Likes SouthPark, neophyte liked this post
  #2  
Old 04-13-2020, 07:42 PM
SouthPark's Avatar
SouthPark SouthPark is online now
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 2018
Member of:AOS
Location: Australia - North Queensland
Posts: 1,836
Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
Default

I'm not sure keysguy. But all I can say right now is ------- wow! Your white coloured skinneri flowers are incredibly nice. I love the shape and the colour. I only had 1 skinneri (when I was first starting to grow orchids, which didn't make it in my learner days), and haven't had a replacement ------- and it wasn't a white coloured one. Your ones are fantastic.

I do know that species cross species still falls under the same species. And hybrids are crosses such as species and another species, or species and hybrid, or hybrid and hybrid.


Last edited by SouthPark; 04-15-2020 at 08:55 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-13-2020, 09:18 PM
neophyte's Avatar
neophyte neophyte is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2016
Zone: 9b
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 491
Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?
Default

I can't help with the id but I just wanted to comment... what a stunning display!
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes SouthPark liked this post
  #4  
Old 04-14-2020, 09:50 PM
Fairorchids's Avatar
Fairorchids Fairorchids is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Zone: 6a
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 1,928
Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
Default

I think the 'Debbie' (FCC/AOS, 1985) is good. It is an extremely vigorous clone (I grew a single PB to a BS plant with 3 or 4 leads in 4 years).

I don't know whether occulata is considered a variety or a color form, but the near alba with just a touch or color is typical of plants with this name.
__________________
Kim (Fair Orchids)

Founder of SPCOP (Society to Prevention of Cruelty to Orchid People), with the goal of barring the taxonomists from tinkering with established genera!

I am neither a 'lumper' nor a 'splitter', but I refuse to re-write millions of labels.

Last edited by Fairorchids; 04-15-2020 at 09:06 AM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 2 Likes
Likes Afid, neophyte liked this post
  #5  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:50 AM
DirtyCoconuts DirtyCoconuts is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2019
Zone: 10b
Location: South Florida, East Coast
Posts: 2,020
Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?
Default

Wow. Stunning plants
__________________
Rooted in South Florida....

Zone 10b, Baby! Hot and wet
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-15-2020, 09:12 AM
Keysguy Keysguy is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Lower Florida Keys
Posts: 202
Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
Default

Thanks everybody!

Kim--- I'm pretty sure oculata is considered a variety as that is the way it is typically referred to in OrchidWiz. I've read up on the taxonomy hierarchy of variety vs form and I confess......I don't understand the differentiation.
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes DirtyCoconuts liked this post
  #7  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:14 PM
Fairorchids's Avatar
Fairorchids Fairorchids is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Zone: 6a
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 1,928
Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keysguy View Post
Thanks everybody!

Kim--- I'm pretty sure oculata is considered a variety as that is the way it is typically referred to in OrchidWiz. I've read up on the taxonomy hierarchy of variety vs form and I confess......I don't understand the differentiation.
Early on, everything different from standard (= tipo) was considered a variation.

Today color variations are considered forms. However, if a color form was formally described as a variety in a scientific journal at some time in the past, then I guess it is still considered a variety (unless another taxonomist publishes a new paper to debunk the old paper).
__________________
Kim (Fair Orchids)

Founder of SPCOP (Society to Prevention of Cruelty to Orchid People), with the goal of barring the taxonomists from tinkering with established genera!

I am neither a 'lumper' nor a 'splitter', but I refuse to re-write millions of labels.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
debbie, eye, oculata, skinneri, white


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Orchids with a strong scent razka3 Beginner Discussion 276 05-25-2020 04:57 PM
Brazilian imports at Redlands Festival Ben_in_North_FLA Cattleya Alliance 1 03-02-2019 11:54 AM
Brazilan cattles and others, Bela Vista list for Tamiami pre order Ben_in_North_FLA Cattleya Alliance 2 11-30-2018 06:15 PM
Fragrant Cattleya (Guarianthe) skinneri? loneroc Cattleya Alliance 0 09-07-2018 08:48 AM
help with basic identification - large collection ckube Identification Forum 12 12-30-2016 06:14 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:52 PM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.