Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?
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  #1  
Old 04-13-2020, 04:52 PM
Keysguy Keysguy is offline
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Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
Default Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?

I know we have had a lot of "what is it?" quizzes regarding hybrids or "species vs. hybrid" here but not so many discussions around ID of sub-species, vaieties and forms so I thought it would be fun to see what all of you with varying backgrounds and experience think of this one. Personally, I think there are options so feedback and opinions should be fun. For the novices out there, here is a fun example to get the juices flowing on exploring taxonomy and taxonomical rank in botany (headache warning!).

The species Guarianthe skinneri (aka appropriately, the Easter orchid) has multiple varieties and forms depending on where you pull your research from and I am trying to figure out what I really have.

I have had both of these plants for probably 10 years or more and I have divided each of them more than once since that time. Long enough that I have no clue where I got them but most likely source would have been a society member auction so they are also probably divisions of other plants. I have thought about doing this for quite awhile but it had to be timed for when both were as close to full bloom as possible.

Below are 2 pictures of both plants side by side. One from above and one head-on.
The one on the right was labeled Catt. skinneri fmr. alba 'Debbie' while the one on the left was labeled Catt. skinneri var. oculata. I don't think the oculata is correct and now I'm wondering about the Debbie too.
The third picture is a close-up of Debbie and the fourth is close-up of oculata.

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam1-jpg

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam2-jpg

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam3-jpg

Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?-skinneri-exam4-jpg

From the descriptions I've been able to find, "oculata" (which means roughly "eye") is also sometimes referred to as "alba oculata" and should be entirely white with a rose or lavender color deep in the recess of the throat or the "eye". My plant has the eye but it also is NOT white. It has what I refer to as a "purple haze" throughout the flower parts. It really is quite stunning when you add in that beautiful skinneri crystalline shimmer.
It definitely is not coerulea, I believe semi-alba refers to color only in the lip so I'm wondering if it might truly be
form albescens (which roughly means fading to white).

'Debbie' is listed in most references as an alba form (as does my tag) but I have also seen it listed as a semi-alba which would mean coloration on the lip. Mine is pure white (no colored eye observed in any flower) EXCEPT maybe 1-2 flowers in a cluster (but not every cluster) has a faint purple haze just in the lip.

So......what say ye? Let the fun begin!
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Old 04-13-2020, 07:42 PM
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SouthPark SouthPark is offline
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I'm not sure keysguy. But all I can say right now is ------- wow! Your white coloured skinneri flowers are incredibly nice. I love the shape and the colour. I only had 1 skinneri (when I was first starting to grow orchids, which didn't make it in my learner days), and haven't had a replacement ------- and it wasn't a white coloured one. Your ones are fantastic.

I do know that species cross species still falls under the same species. And hybrids are crosses such as species and another species, or species and hybrid, or hybrid and hybrid.


Last edited by SouthPark; 04-15-2020 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 04-13-2020, 09:18 PM
neophyte neophyte is offline
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Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?
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I can't help with the id but I just wanted to comment... what a stunning display!
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Old 04-14-2020, 09:50 PM
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Fairorchids Fairorchids is offline
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Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
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I think the 'Debbie' (FCC/AOS, 1985) is good. It is an extremely vigorous clone (I grew a single PB to a BS plant with 3 or 4 leads in 4 years).

I don't know whether occulata is considered a variety or a color form, but the near alba with just a touch or color is typical of plants with this name.
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Last edited by Fairorchids; 04-15-2020 at 09:06 AM..
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:50 AM
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Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly?
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Wow. Stunning plants
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Old 04-15-2020, 09:12 AM
Keysguy Keysguy is offline
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Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
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Thanks everybody!

Kim--- I'm pretty sure oculata is considered a variety as that is the way it is typically referred to in OrchidWiz. I've read up on the taxonomy hierarchy of variety vs form and I confess......I don't understand the differentiation.
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Old 04-20-2020, 09:14 PM
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Fairorchids Fairorchids is offline
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Guarianthe (formerly Cattleya) skinneri....but what exactly? Male
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keysguy View Post
Thanks everybody!

Kim--- I'm pretty sure oculata is considered a variety as that is the way it is typically referred to in OrchidWiz. I've read up on the taxonomy hierarchy of variety vs form and I confess......I don't understand the differentiation.
Early on, everything different from standard (= tipo) was considered a variation.

Today color variations are considered forms. However, if a color form was formally described as a variety in a scientific journal at some time in the past, then I guess it is still considered a variety (unless another taxonomist publishes a new paper to debunk the old paper).
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