Mini Mark vs Mini Mark 'Holm'... can I tell if mine is this clone? - Orchid Board

RosieC · #1 05-22-2010, 04:25 PM

OK, not sure quite how to explain my question, but here goes...

I have bought a Mini Mark back in March which has just opened the first flower on a new spike (when I bought it there was one almost dropping flower left).

My Mini Mark was just labled as Mini Mark, no clone name, but I know that 'Holm' is a very popular clone, infact I've never seen a different clone name mentioned for this one.

I can see from the new flower that this one looks identical to all the pics of 'Holm' that I have seen online.

So... is mine likely to be a different clone of the same hybrid, which just happens to be very close in look to the 'Holm' clone, or because it looks so identical can I make the assumption that it is 'Holm'.

I guess what I am asking is, can I only know that it is a particular clone if the seller labels is as that, or can you know which clone it is from the look?

RosieC · #2 05-22-2010, 04:40 PM

Here is a pic of mine (first pic) and the second pic is one of 'Holm' that I found in a google search and just happens to have been posted online by our OB member Ron Hanko. Hope you don't mind me using your pic as an example Ron.

The colour in Ron's pic is more acurate for the colour of mine. I took mine in quite orange artificial light (not good camera conditions) and I had to mess with the manual evaluation of the white balance to get anywhere near the correct colour.

trdyl · #3 05-22-2010, 05:19 PM

Rosie, Your Mini Mark seems too flat for the 'Holm' cultivar. If you take a good look at the 'Holm' photo you will notice that the petals recurve slightly. I have the 'Holm' culitvar and yes the recurved petals are present. But the photo of yours is a head on shot. Check the profile of it to be sure.

sweetjblue · #4 05-23-2010, 08:56 AM

Rosie,
You state that this flower "just" opened. Is it possible that it has not fully developed (opened). If so you may see the reflexed look after a few more days.
Have you tried to contact the grower? They may be able to give you the answer your looking for.

Judi

Roy · #5 05-23-2010, 09:28 AM

RosieC, I would say they are 2 different plants. Close inspection suggests too many features to be the same.
Its a good thing you put the pics in, NOID in the first post.

RosieC · #6 05-23-2010, 10:09 AM

Thanks everyone.

Ted & Judi interesting what you say about the recrurved nature of 'Holm' because this one IS recurved as the flowers get older. When I bought it there was only one old flower left and that was most certainly recurved as hopefully can be seen in this shot of the original (even though it is still a head shot not a profile).

Inspection of my current flower now after it's been open a few days also shows just a slight recurve as per Rons pics, rather than the massive recurve on the old flower.

Roy, I'm interested to know the features you see as different. I'm still learning at this, and to me they look very similar

RosieC · #7 05-23-2010, 10:14 AM

Ok... but really my question is... even if these two DID look the same, could I know for certain if I had the particular cultivar just from the pictures. Or would the only way to be 100% certain be if it had been labled as that (or if I contact the grower and the confirm it).

I guess, as well as wondering about this one, I'm also interested in the more general principle of the situation.

ronaldhanko · #8 05-23-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RosieC

Ok... but really my question is... even if these two DID look the same, could I know for certain if I had the particular cultivar just from the pictures. Or would the only way to be 100% certain be if it had been labled as that (or if I contact the grower and the confirm it).

I guess, as well as wondering about this one, I'm also interested in the more general principle of the situation.

The fact that two plants look the same is not a guarantee that they are the same clone. If there was not a lot of diversity in a cross all the different plants from the cross may look alike. The grower may be able to help and his word would go along ways toward answering the question, but things can become confused as plant pass around and are sold. Think of Mauro's recent post about C. percivaliana semi-alba which you commented on.
If the grower who sold you the plant told you it was "Holm" I'd be satisfied with that. If he doesn't know there is no way to be sure.

RosieC · #9 05-23-2010, 10:51 AM

Thanks Ron.

It was Mauro's post which actually prompted my question. Because he had bought something as one clone, but was now convinced it was a different clone. I was interested that he could feel sure of this just from the look as it was my feeling that unless you know the clone name it could just be a very very similar one. So you might be able to say that what you have is NOT the clone it was sold as, but can not 100% say it is something else.

My Mini Mark was NOT sold as 'Holm' and although the seller is also a grower I don't believe he grew these. Having spoken to him at the time I think he buys in the Phals he sells (he also didn't have Phals in his growing area, or seedling area when I looked round).

Thanks for your input on this, I'm always interested to learn how these things work.