Phal Sweet Memory Liodoro: winter or summer bloomer?
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  #11  
Old 01-13-2021, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer View Post
what makes it tough sometimes to determine the flowering time is that a lot of these will be imported from the other side of the world like thailand and the season will be opposite to ours. They get sold in bloom having come from a different climate and either the plants stick to the yearly pattern they grew up with or they try to adapt to the different climate they are now exposed to.
This can mess up when they flower and has confused.
I avoid dry rest periods for my orchids and I have noticed this gives different results. A dry rest can delay flowering in some orchids so one grower might have his flower 2 months earlier than another grower.

Artificial lights can mess things up even more as I myself am tricking a couple inot thinking it is spring when it isn't yet
The first new blooming after purchase might occur outside the expected period as the plant is still adapting after import and/or induced blooming, but after that there is no reason for the plant to not spike/bloom based on cues in its current environment in the years following that. From what I understand, the OP has had the plant for a while, so I wouldn't expect previous growth conditions to play a role anymore.

As to artificial light, it will only mess up blooming if photoperiod is important to the plant. For the majority of orchids light won't be blooming trigger since they naturally occur close to the equator, though I understand that, for instance, there are certain groups of Cattleyas that do need changes in photoperiod in order to trigger blooming.
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:15 AM
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Phal Sweet Memory Liodoro: winter or summer bloomer? Female
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Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
The first new blooming after purchase might occur outside the expected period as the plant is still adapting after import and/or induced blooming, but after that there is no reason for the plant to not spike/bloom based on cues in its current environment in the years following that. From what I understand, the OP has had the plant for a while, so I wouldn't expect previous growth conditions to play a role anymore.
Yes, I've had the plant for several months.

Anyway... My orchid comes from NL... as the majority of the most popular phal hybrids in Europe. So... no doubt about that. I also purchased it in late spring... so during what it should be "her proper season" at this point.

I honestly think that she just suffered a lot the transport and the bad medium in which she was potted.. and now she's slowly coming back to "life". Which makes me hope for blooms in late spring!

My concern is that she doesn't have a good root system yet. That could be a possible reason for no blooms.... but let's think positive!
I was also thinking about using Kelpmax just to encourage root growth.... but I fear that it could mess up the hormonal balance of the orchid. I don't have any experience with that product.

Last edited by chicken_wing; 01-13-2021 at 11:20 AM..
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:32 AM
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My concern is that she doesn't have a good root system yet. That could be a possible reason for no blooms.... but let's think positive!
I was also thinking about using Kelpmax just to encourage root growth.... but I fear that it could mess up the hormonal balance of the orchid. I don't have any experience with that product.
Kelpmax (or kelpak) in Europe does change the hormonal balance in the plant by applying an exterior source of hormones, because that what you want it to do in order to promote root growth. You can't really 'mess up' your plant with it. I've been using it for 6 months (and a lot of members here use it) and I've never heard of negative side effects.
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  #14  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
Kelpmax (or kelpak) in Europe does change the hormonal balance in the plant by applying an exterior source of hormones, because that what you want it to do in order to promote root growth. You can't really 'mess up' your plant with it. I've been using it for 6 months (and a lot of members here use it) and I've never heard of negative side effects.
Are you noticing positive effects in the root growth?
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2021, 12:18 PM
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Are you noticing positive effects in the root growth?
Check out my post in page 3 of this thread: Kelpmax in Netherlands
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  #16  
Old 01-13-2021, 01:34 PM
Orchidtinkerer Orchidtinkerer is offline
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Phal Sweet Memory Liodoro: winter or summer bloomer?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
The first new blooming after purchase might occur outside the expected period as the plant is still adapting after import and/or induced blooming, but after that there is no reason for the plant to not spike/bloom based on cues in its current environment in the years following that. From what I understand, the OP has had the plant for a while, so I wouldn't expect previous growth conditions to play a role anymore.

As to artificial light, it will only mess up blooming if photoperiod is important to the plant. For the majority of orchids light won't be blooming trigger since they naturally occur close to the equator, though I understand that, for instance, there are certain groups of Cattleyas that do need changes in photoperiod in order to trigger blooming.
Yes Camille, the OP has had it for a few months. To some a few months might be a while, to me not so much.

I'm still building up experience as I go along and on a discussion about what triggers phals to bloom I might have indicated recently that temps are important, ie the right temps for a plant to grow well but they have not seemed to be as much of a trigger as lighting has been.

The majority of care guides on orchid growing we still rely on today were written in the 50's including giving orchids a dry rest and the notion that temperature induces blooming. When these care guides were written the only lighting was natural lighting so very little could be done to change or experiment with it. I am not so sure anymore having observed my orchids for a few years that temperatures are the triggers.

I am currently getting two different nobiles to produce buds, one is getting the cold temps "it needs" - the other isn't. It doesn't seem to care and is producing buds at the same time as the other. The one with colder temps is going to bloom better but it was not the trigger it seems to initiate the buds.

I believe as more people grow under artificial lighting we will learn more to the story.

Even phals, I don't think are triggered by the cold autumn temperatures if they bloom in autumn, that just happens to coincide with when day light hours reduce.
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2021, 02:26 PM
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Phal Sweet Memory Liodoro: winter or summer bloomer? Male
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There are some species that have specific environmental triggers, and plenty of others that either do not, or we haven't identified them.

One thing all plants have in common is the need for the resources necessary to allow the plant to commit some of them to reproduction.

This article, published in the AOS Orchids magazine, lends a bit more insight.
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2021, 04:23 PM
chicken_wing chicken_wing is offline
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Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer View Post

I am currently getting two different nobiles to produce buds, one is getting the cold temps "it needs" - the other isn't. It doesn't seem to care and is producing buds at the same time as the other. The one with colder temps is going to bloom better but it was not the trigger it seems to initiate the buds.
As far as I know - and based on what I've heard by some reputable growers - it depends on the type of Dendrobium nobile.
There're some more finicky than others when it comes to winter rest. Not only some of them want it dry but also cold.
In my experience, I can confirm.
When I provide a dry winter I can have some bud, but it's not a really impressive display. When I give it a serious dry and COLD - almost freezing condition - winter.... I have the nicest displays.
BTW This is just my experience, I'm not giving any lesson.

Anyway, it's a fact that there are some species triggered by colder/warmer temperatures. It's just what science and observation say...

Last edited by chicken_wing; 01-14-2021 at 05:10 AM..
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:43 AM
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It's to die for
First look after yourself in order to look after the orchids hehehe.

It should be 'to LIVE for'!!!!!
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:28 PM
Orchidtinkerer Orchidtinkerer is offline
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Phal Sweet Memory Liodoro: winter or summer bloomer?
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Anyway, it's a fact that there are some species triggered by colder/warmer temperatures. It's just what science and observation say...

I am more interested in what makes phals tick at the moment. This might be coincidence but all 8 phals that are blooming here at the moment were given 8 hours light/rest over christmas. The 15 phals I decided to give 12 hours of light all through winter are all doing nothing, every single one! Which is not what I was expecting at all.
Coincidence? Not sure.

As to it being fact that some species are triggered by the cold, I would say that is based on old facts, it was once fact that the earth was flat, doesn't mean it actually is, I haven't got enough evidence yet but it surprises me as there are growers that have been growing decades longer than me and there should be more evidence!

It is fact that commercial phal growers keep temps above 28 degrees to inhibit flowering. When they want them to flower they lower temperatures - this enables flowering. There is a big difference between enabling flowering and triggering flowering though so it is complicated but the only reason this would then be interpreted as in temperatures trigger flowering is if if was observed in nature, as temperatures drop, the ones that flower do so. But why does the temperature drop? Because daylight hours reduce. So if both happen at the same time you could decide it is the temps but it could just as well be the light hours reducing which in turn reduces temps and there would be no way of proving it one way or the other without trying different conditions one year after the next. ie cold rest + supplemental light, no cold + light, cold with no light and warm with no lights. And with several different orchids.

A cold drop at night improves flowering for every orchid so I can completely understand why it is thought to be so but I don't just want to have an asnwer for the sake of it, I want the right answer so that I get better results.

Could I have gotten the 15 phals I gave 12 hours of light over winter (using electricity I might add) to flower? Most likely yes but I will have to wait till next year to try something different again.

Last edited by Orchidtinkerer; 01-16-2021 at 08:43 PM..
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