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  #1  
Old 04-08-2013, 04:53 PM
Onyx Onyx is offline
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Choosing lighting setup for phals + other plants
Default Choosing lighting setup for phals + other plants

Hey all! I tried asking this on a more generic plants & gardening forum since only some of my plants are orchids, but it seems most of the discussion there is about starting seedlings for gardens. So, I apologize if it's a little too non-orchid-y, but I think you all would have a higher chance of knowing the info I want.

Being the owner of giant, only north-facing windows, I am tired of the guesswork of wondering if said giant windows provide enough light and am interested in moving my misfit plant collection to something less dependent on good weather. I'm likely going to be buying a light meter in the next week, give or take, so I can see just how much light I'm getting from said window. But even if it's good for my lower-light plants, I still only have a couple of square feet of growing space there on top of a bookshelf that won't fit everything on it -- so it's basically a good display area when stuff blooms and that's about it.

I already have one of those five shelf, 4 ft wide wire racks in another room, not near a window, that I'd like to use. I have one shelf pretty much already cleared that I want to put all the plants on. Of course it's roughly 4 ft wide and a little under 1.5 ft deep, and I can easily clear 27" for lighting and the plants themselves, but if I could shrink that to 24" even, that'd be better for the lower storage shelves.

I have a few more plants I still want to purchase, but once I have them all I will have two equal groups: those that should be around 1000-1500 fc (3 phals*, one guzmania bromeliad, one cane begonia), and a group that are 600-1000 fc (4 various-sized African Violets, one rex begonia). I'm not planning on getting any more plants beyond that, mostly because I will be out of room. Maybe if/when I move to somewhere with natural light, haha...

My main question is are there any suggested fixtures for lighting this array of plants? Do note I am of course trying to go towards the cheaper end of things, so bargain-bin solutions are great!

I was initially thinking two 2ft florescent light fixtures each with different bulbs, but being new to the whole concept of artificial light for plants, I have no idea how -many- bulbs or anything like that. Is there any rule of thumb for figuring out the light at distance X from bulb to leaves if it has Y lumens on the fixture's/bulb's box or similar things that would prevent playing musical fixtures until I get one that works? Could it be done with one 4ft and just put the lower light stuff around the sides, or is there not that much of a difference between the center parts and the edges?

After poking around the web some, I also now am also considering 2ft florescent for the lower light plants and CFLs for the higher light plants -- but I have absolutely no idea how fixtures for those work! Are they in domes like for reptile lights to focus the light or are they in the open and just kind of there without a covering or does it even matter? Is there any sort of math for figuring out how many CFLs are needed to light a space well enough for phals at a certain distance, or is it mostly trial and error?

Are there any major pros/cons between these two setups that I should keep in mind before running out to the store/Amazon to purchase things? Any other advanced newbie tips for figuring out specific fixtures & bulbs? Basically any help is appreciated! Thanks!





*Two of the phals are in orchid-ICU. If they don't pull through, they'll likely be replaced with a paph and an odontoglossum if I can find ones I like -- and if not, other phals. Unless I'm terrible at remembering things, they should be similar lighting? But basically I'll have the same number of plants in the end.
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2013, 06:37 AM
Magnus A Magnus A is offline
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As I understand your post you have no experience growing under artificial light.

Therefore I would suggest that you forget about the amount of light needed for different plants R THE MOMENT not for ever! The value that circulating on the internet is OFTEN peak value at mid day in the natural habitat! And it is the total amout given during the day that is interesting for most species, not all.


I myself regularly flower for example dendrobium laevifolium and Sophronitis cernua under florescent light fixtures with T5 high output tubes . This should be impossibly if they cared about the light recomendation given on the internet!

There are a ton of information about light on the forum (start reading :-) ) but I can give you one direct advice.

For your wire rack, you have more or lesss only one option, and that is florescent tubes as wide as the shelfs. Go for high output tubes of T5 as they are much more compact than T8 or T12. Go for a color temperature of 5000-6500 K and you get a white light without color casts. The tubes produced for plants have often lower light output, a terribly colorcast that make everything look awful and cost way to much for the claimed benefits.


/M
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  #3  
Old 04-09-2013, 11:36 AM
Magnus A Magnus A is offline
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Oh, I forgot one important thing!
Make sure to get good reflectors to your light as florescent tubes spread the light output 360 degrees! For florescent tubes there are some realy nice click on reflectors!
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  #4  
Old 04-09-2013, 03:32 PM
Onyx Onyx is offline
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Choosing lighting setup for phals + other plants
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Thanks for the reply!

How many bulbs are you suggesting? More than two sounds a bit crispy for some of them, but maybe I just don't have a good hold on how quick light drops off.

How do I account for the differences in required light, then? Just closer/farther from the bulb? The reason I'm concerned more about it is because the 600fc number I see for African Violets seems to be given for growing under artificial lights for 16 hours or so. I do understand after doing some reading about it how light is additive that way -- kind of convenient too for those high light ones, too! (Might steal a piece of mom's older-than-me, growing outside, uncared-for cymbidum and put a spot on it if I can figure out what that singular plant would need, but that's a later project -- much later, heh). But still, is there that much of a variance between the center of the bulb and the end, assuming the center would be a nice 1000fc or so for the orchids? Do my AVs need little umbrellas?! Haha.

Really though, I just want to get it done right the first time and not make mods ($) later because a group is getting too much/little light. I just want to get in the right ballpark and if it turns out I have to somehow squeeze another 3 inches of height out of the rack or something to get stuff to not fry my plants 'cause my math was off, dangit, I'll find a way, heh.
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  #5  
Old 04-09-2013, 06:51 PM
Magnus A Magnus A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
Thanks for the reply!

How many bulbs are you suggesting?
I would start with 2.

I just don't have a good hold on how quick light drops off.
A good page for light drop off: Rules for Perfect Lighting: Understanding The Inverse-Square Law

How do I account for the differences in required light, then? Just closer/farther from the bulb?
That is what I do in my growing cabinets.

I do understand after doing some reading about it how light is additive that way -- kind of convenient too for those high light ones, too!
This addition is only possibly to some degree, and some plants DO have a minimum requirment to flower. Though that limit is seldom possibly to find on the internet. You have to experiment under your growing conditions.

But still, is there that much of a variance between the center of the bulb and the end, assuming the center would be a nice 1000fc or so for the orchids?
The light from a fluorescent tube is pretty uniform over its lenght.

Do my AVs need little umbrellas?! Haha.
Do not know but they will not be fried by light, maybe heat radiation. (No strong UV in fluorescent tube)

You find my thoughts above!

Good luck!
/M
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  #6  
Old 04-10-2013, 07:38 PM
naoki naoki is offline
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Magnus gave you good answers. If you don't have any intention of getting plants requiring more light than Phal, then T8 is cheaper than T5HO in the US. Also T8 is more efficient (more lumen/W). Especially 4' 2-bulb shop lights are cheap (if you can make a space). One of them (2-bulb unit) should be enough. But I wouldn't go with the cheapest shop light. This one is supposed to have a better reflector than the cheapest:
Lithonia Lighting Diamond Plate 2-Light Chrome Ceiling Fluorescent Shop Light Fixture-1241DP RE at The Home Depot

Also you should consider the cost of electricity, which does add up quite quickly. In our place (expensive electricity), my grow tent setup with 4x 4' T5HO + 28W LED costs about $2-300 per year. So if growth of plants is your main goal (instead of display), 14-28W LED grow panel ends up the cheapest in the long term. Something like this:
Amazon.com: Sunshine Systems LEDGP45 GlowPanel 28 Watt 45 LED Grow Light: Patio, Lawn & Garden

In ebay, there are cheaper ones with 14W, but I don't know the quality. One of this will cover about 2x2' area, and Phals grow well if it is placed about 1 foot above the leaves.

Or Ray's LED Vivarium/Grow Lamp ($29.00) might be something you prefer:
https://www.firstrays.com/cgi/cart/c...exact_match=on

Last edited by naoki; 04-10-2013 at 07:41 PM..
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  #7  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:17 AM
Magnus A Magnus A is offline
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I partly agree with naoki but as the dimention of T5 is much smaller I though it more suitable for a rack. It also mean that you can get more tubes in and get more light form a setup with T5 than T8. though there is a energy cost to everything ;-)

On LED you should remember that when they break they must be replaced and the hole cost is in the panels! For fluorescent tubes the main cost is in the fixture that have a much longer life expectancy. The calculation must be done individually on your energy cost to be valid.
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:41 PM
Onyx Onyx is offline
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Choosing lighting setup for phals + other plants
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Magnus, that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for, as far as math goes! Maybe I'm just weird but I like knowing even a vague pass of the science behind things. Thank you!

Naoki, that first fixture (diamond plate one) is the one I ended up getting. The reflector is reasonably nice but I think I'll probably at some point trying to build some bigger ones to trap the light more. It's way brighter than everything else in the general vicinity, haha. Thank you!

I think I'll see how this fixture works out. Assuming everything stays looking healthy, I'll leave it as is. If not I'll add or remove light as needed. Currently working on adjusting the height of the rack and lamp since I went out to buy rocks for my humidity trays and came home with an oncidium that's like 3" taller than I had it set. But that's a whole different thread I get to make later.
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:31 AM
naoki naoki is offline
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I think that you can go around 3-4" between the top of leaves (for phals) and the bulbs with T8. But you might want to gradually make the distance shorter.
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  #10  
Old 07-03-2014, 10:42 PM
toxoplasma_gondii toxoplasma_gondii is offline
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Choosing lighting setup for phals + other plants
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The book Understanding Orchids has a great section on setting up a grow lights.
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