Exo-Terrra Compact Fluorescent requirements?

[websherpa]

I am setting up a first 24 x 18 x 18 tall glass Exo-Terra to serve as a propagation and general growing / display case for my miniature orchids (Neofinetia falcata and Sedirea to begin with). It will have hydroton balls in the bottom with a pump to circulate water - maybe a mister at some point. And basic egg crate plastic structure for the pots to sit on and some cork / wood mounted epiphytes, etc. A fan on the inside to circulate air and create widn for the epiphytes.

In any case I wanted to start with two Exo-terra Compact Tops (each can hold 2 compact flourescents, so four bulbs total). Normally they are rated for 26w bulbs but I was thining of uping them to common Phillips/Sylvania 42w / 40w bulbs, two eack of 6500k and 2700k with some additional reflective material. I can put a fan in the hoods if they need cooling.

I had planned on putting the two 2700k in one hood and the 6500k in another hood and then having the 2700 come on first and go off last to create a bit of a sunrise/sunset.

In any case, I do have a light meter, but I am wondering what footcandles I should be shooting for, what might be too little and too much (I know it varies in the tank from top to bottom), and what might be ideal for the Neos.

I am wondering what kinds of CFL compact fluorescents other members are using with their Exo_terra Compact or similar hoods and a terrarium this size and any recommendations or advice (other than switch to T5s...that will come in time but a 4 bulb 2 foot fixture is more than $100 from the local "magic crops" hydroponics store).

Thank you all for your help, this board has been invaluable to me!

[Epiphile]

Hi websherpa,

I'd written Exo-Terra to ask them why, if these hoods use self-ballasted bulbs, they advise to only use lamps at maximum 26W (incidentally the highest wattage of any of the lamps they produce...) and they had this to say:

"Any rating on a canopy is made by the regulatory agency that approves the product for its dedicated usage. We do not and cannot recommend exceeding that rating or otherwise using any certified electrical product in a way that is not approved. We do not have any CFL bulb larger that a 26W, and have not attempted to use anything larger, since these would probably not be specifically designed for reptile use, and thus the results would not be predictable.

We cannot tell you if the use of a larger rated wattage would be a problem since we have not tested this in any way. We certainly do not recommend it."

So there's that to consider- I'm still considering whether or not to give higher-wattage lamps a try, though. Just working up the courage.

I'm able to bloom Bulbophyllum and Pleurothallidinae species under one of these fixtures with the rated lamps, if that's any help- I don't have any experience with the plants you're keeping. Here's a caresheet, though, which recommends 2000-3600 footcandles: Neofinetia falcata Culture

[websherpa]

Thank you, a couple of points:

1) I don't think my problem (for Neos) is going t to be light so much as heat. In testing the 24x18x18 Exo-Terra with the larger 40w lamps, the problem is excess heat. Using a screen top or acrylic top will assist in cutting down the heat, but the former in particular, cuts down the light. 2) I am not certain how to get the temperatures for my Neos down for the winter in order to stimulate blooming without opening the doors (and defeating the increased humidity. Misting may help a little.

3) While 40w flourescents may be efficient in terms of light (I can get about 2K Footcandles very close to the top, bleeding off to about 500+ near the bottom, the ballasts are not so efficient and generate a lot of heat. No wonder the higher wattages are not recommended for the hood.

4) I can see that the extra heat generated may eventually put stress on the plastic used for the hood.

Adding cooling fans would solve at least some of these problems, which is my next step.

However I am wondering whether the hoods are a false economy? i.e. spending the money on a suspended 4 x T5 reflector may have been a better choice at only twice the cost. (I bought the hoods because I can move them on to Vivariums with reptiles.

I guess what I wanted to hear was how successful people using two hoods and 4 x 26w CFLs in the Exo-Terra Compact Flourescents were making out - i.e. Is it enough light to stimulate optimum growth.

The other question would be specific to Neofinetia, that is, would the higher heat in a terrarium type enclosure overwhelm the benefit of the increased humidity? As far as I can tell from extended reading, the Neo's natural environments are usually fairly humid (70 - 80%) most of the year, but the temperatures range quite widely through a season (37 - 87 F) - which makes sense when you think of Japan being a somewhat mountainous island. Too bad I no longer live in Vancouver with an outdoor greenhouse (near Toronto, Ontario now).

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[websherpa]

Quick Update. I haven't really finished settin gup my Exo-Terra yet, but I decided to put my Neo Finetia and Sideris in for a test (along with a Min/Max temperature & Humidity monitor).

I mixed up the lights a bit, with 2 x 6500k 40W flourescents in one hood and 2 x 2700k 40w in the back one and timers on each to simulate a kind of dawn / dusk and balance the light towards the red a bit.

It was a bit hot in the tank, although I did not put plexiglass on the top, (and no fans yet), so the terrarium doesn't stay too hot. Keeping the mesh screen top in does cut the light a little but also helps keep it a bit cooler (along with lifiting the lights a bit above the terrarium rim to give a bit more air flow at the top.

From quick experiments, installing a plexiglass (or possibly glass) top will likely cut the temperature a bit without sacrificing light, but the humidity will then stay considerably higher without a fan or mister. Perhaps too humid for the Neo.

In any case, going back a step. Moving my neo and Sideris too the lighted terarrium, and changing out at least one of the 2700k 40w for a full spectrum 26w gives what I think is a bit "bluer" winter light. The net result is that the Neo (if not the Sideris) is responding brilliantly with immediate new and fairly fast growing air roots and good leaf colour.

My concern now is how to get the enclosure cool enough for a period over winter to help stimualte flowering next season.

[websherpa]

Well after a few months with my very barebones Exo-Terra set-up and the selection of 2 x 42W 6500k and 2 x 40W 2700K CFs I have good news to report.

My neo finetia is growing like gangbusters. A phal that I rescued from the grocery store for $5 has re-spiked and is budding flowers .... and my sideris has bloomed -
beautiful white flowers with purple markings and it smells like lemons to me.

I'll post pics in my gallery. http://www.orchidboard.com/community...pa-albums.html

The lights are on timers and they come on in a dawn to dusk fashion, as well as vary segments on and off through the day to give some variety.

My new orchids weren't doing exceptionally well, until I put them in the Exo-Terra and established a regime.

They get no appreciable natural light. I may move them to a north window in the summer.

I mist the roots only daily with a combination of distilled or RO water (I used to have marine reef aquaria) mixed with Orchid Champion (6ml/4l) as recommended by the original grower, but I found the solution went moldy before I could use it all, so I started adding a tiny bit of Physan to the water as well.

I also alternate feeding (again by spraying on roots) usually after the morning spray, and increased the frequency when I saw new growth. Every other day or every third day.

Every Wednesday I give my three orchids a bath. They come out of the terrarium, and I run them under filtered cold tap water until they are thoroughly soaked.

I haven't added any media to hold water and increase the humidity (although I had planned to, I got sidetracked), and no fan (but again I had intended to, especially for the neo).

The original grower said to keep the neo wet, but both my mom and aunt who also got the same clone neos when I did (and all three are on rock culture) are currently having root/crown rot problems. I may have to rescue theirs soon.

I stopped keeping my neo wet and just went with the above regime, where its moss (mounted on rock) pretty much dries out by evening time each day. The neo has lots of new air root growth.

I have come to the conclusion only to really mist the roots (leaves just indirectly), and I prefer air roots out in the air around the pots, and I think this is what keeps them vigorous and from rotting as the roots of my Sideris that are inside the moss medium have all tended to blacken off.

I appreciate any and all comments, kudos and advice.

[websherpa]

One quick and funny note. The Fertilizer. I was looking for things locally when I decided to visit Franks Magic Crops, a, em, "herb" growing supplier in Burlington, ON. Man, a lot of people must have gro-ops in their basements! (not me.)

Any way after we got through the introductions and I explained that I grow orchids, it turns out so do a few other customers, and the proprietor suggested using a summmer and a winter fertilizer that he stocks that is hand mixed by a member of the Royal Botanical Gardens (just south of me).

Now, I have no real idea what the fertilizer was meant, for, but it did have a hand typed label that said "Orchid Food" and the mix and component marks.

That is what I have been feeding (the winter food), and it seems to be working, although I can't really tell if it's the light, the higher constant humidity and temperature of the enclosure, the watering regime, the feeding or a combination of all three/four that is making my orchids grow. But hey, if it works....

[Epiphile]

Hey, that's great news. And so you're running two of these hoods with a total of about 164 watts? I'm not surprised things are growing like crazy. Did you end up installing cooling fans in the hoods? I'd like to see how you placed them.

Glad you're having such success with your terrarium.

[Leisurely]

It seems you are doing the things required for good culture. The secret is the right balance of light, water, air and food. When you have accomplished that everything else is just watching them grow and flower.

[websherpa]

Originally Posted by Epiphile

Hey, that's great news. And so you're running two of these hoods with a total of about 164 watts? I'm not surprised things are growing like crazy. Did you end up installing cooling fans in the hoods? I'd like to see how you placed them.

Glad you're having such success with your terrarium.

Yes,

About 160 watts of spiral compact Flourescent in two hoods with no added reflection (I plan to potentially add some mylar to increase the reflectance after I test for heat. So far the heat is manageable, and cycling the lights through the day probably helps. They cycle over about a 14 hour period right now. Leaves towards the middle are probably getting about 800 - 1000 footcandles, maybe a little more, when all 4 compacts are on.

I was going to put the hoods on top of glass or plexi inorder to trap more humidity and add a fan. And I may still do that, but the culture seems right for these Vanada alliance miniatures and the Phal as is.

I raised the light hoods up a bit with some spacers (anti-slide pads) and space them so that there is some room all around for heat to escape the terarrium. It will be interesting to try closing it off (once I fashion a fan) and see what the increased heat and humidty does.

Before putting them in the terrarium I had them in a North by North West facing window, with a supplementary 6500k 23w CF in a reflector very close overhead. They were barely thriving. Once i put them in the terrarium, with the artificial lighting...boom! They took off!

I was originally worried about heat from the larger CFs and they do raise the temperature to a max of about 78-80F in the day and going down to a min of 60F at night (the min max are usually within 10-12 degrees though).

Humidity averages about 40% going down to about 30% at night and higher after spraying of course. Both miniature orchids (Neo finetia and Sedirea japonica) have trays, and occasionally I leave water in them to raise the humidity (the roots are well above the water for the most part but the Neo's roots have dug down the face of the rock they sit on and into the sand at the base (where water will sit). Seems to like it.

I had planned on giving it the eggcrate (light baffle) treatment to give different platforms and a backing to attach mounts for additional miniatures. Then I saw some vivariums and started dreaming about a steamey jungle and a Crested Gecko living in harmony with the orchids. Then I pictured him eating them. Then I came back to earth and realized I have limited time and things are doing well as is. So perhaps it will go back to being supplemented by a substrate to hold water at the bottom for humidity, and egg crate for supports, or I may dispense with the artificial look of egg crate altogether and just use the substrate (those round clay balls) with clay pots for risers, maybe a little water pump for a small humidity waterfall. Or maybe it will stay as is. We'll see.