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  #1  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:29 AM
Ffion Ffion is offline
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Is it possible to save this dendrobium?
Default Is it possible to save this dendrobium?

I've been pretty successful with dendrobium nobile and its hybrids, all growing and blooming for me, apart from this sad dude- which is very precious to me and makes me very upset. It is (or was) den Oriental Smile Fantasy, they are very very rare in Europe and I was so happy to finally obtain it - but it quickly withered

As you can see from the pics, there are 2 very shrivelled canes, some live roots but it hasn't grown any new root for the whole spring/summer. It was kept in the garden, in high British humidity and filtered sun- all other dens grew like crazy.

I was hoping at least for these 2 keikis but now I'm worried the canes are too shriveled to feed them to the right size of roots. And the keikis' roots are growing VERY slowly, the longest one is maybe one inch long and it's been growing since March.

What should I do to save these keikis? I was thinking about cutting off the cane and putting it with keikis into a moist sphagnum moss but again- isn't the cane too shrivelled already to support them?
Is there any hope for the mother plant?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm desperate.
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  #2  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:41 AM
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camille1585 camille1585 is offline
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I'm not a Den expert because I don't grow any, but my instinct with this would be to take off the keikis and pot them up (sphagnum?), and place them someplace warm. It looks like they have just enough roots to have a decent shot at survival. The way the mother looks, I think they have more of a chance on their own than still attached to that shriveled cane. And that way mother plant can save energy for herself. Have you unpotted it at all to see what state the roots are in, other than what you can see through the pot?

Let's see what the Den growers say!
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:07 AM
Ffion Ffion is offline
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Is it possible to save this dendrobium?
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Thank you Camille, but should I try to detach the keikis or cut them off with a bit of the cane?

I have unpotted it recently, hoping to maybe find some pests that could explaing this demise but it was all clear. There roots are not massive but the amount should be enough to sustain the plant - but they all look pretty old and there are no white/green tips. But they do get green when watered.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:32 AM
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I would do like with phals if possible: twist them off or cut them off, while leaving the mother cane intact. I don't know what people normally do with Dens.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:17 AM
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When did you repot the plant? It looks very dry. My experience has been Dendrobiums should not dry out during warm weather. The combination of fresh bark plus repotting can require more watering than usual. Debdrobiums finding themselves in trouble often throw plantlets, like this.

Most people report better results taking pieces of cane with the keikiis. You might also consider unpotting the whole plant and laying it sideways on a tray of sphagnum moss or fine bark. Pin the plant down such that keiki roots contact the medium. Keep it moist. I would choose to leave the plant intact and lay it sideways.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
I'm not a Den expert because I don't grow any, but my instinct with this would be to take off the keikis and pot them up (sphagnum?), and place them someplace warm. It looks like they have just enough roots to have a decent shot at survival. The way the mother looks, I think they have more of a chance on their own than still attached to that shriveled cane. And that way mother plant can save energy for herself. Have you unpotted it at all to see what state the roots are in, other than what you can see through the pot?

Let's see what the Den growers say!
I only grow two cane-type Dendrobiums currently but I have grown more of the Phal-type and nobile types in the past. I have tried quite a few methods of propagation and, based on my experimentation with them, I think camille1585 has the right idea for the keikis. Keep the moss loose, warm and damp and you should have new plants. I tried to take part of the cane with the keikis to give the little plants a more vigorous start but the cane would rot and this killed the keiki. I had better luck just growing keikis alone. After carefully removing the baby plants, you can do as estación seca suggests and lay the canes on their side on a bed of NZ moss and new plants should sprout from this. I did have some success with this method, too. Good luck!
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:56 PM
Ffion Ffion is offline
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Thank you for your help! I think I will detach one keiki and leave one on the mother plant to put on a side on a moss bed, as Estación seca suggested. Just to minimise the risk
Hopefully I'll have some good news to report.

Estación seca - the plant was repotted in June but the medium and roots were definitely kept moist all the time. It was watered and rained on, even the summer was exceptionally cool and rainy so it didn't have to deal with the heat. But somehow the roots failed to take the water in.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ffion View Post
Thank you for your help! I think I will detach one keiki and leave one on the mother plant to put on a side on a moss bed, as Estación seca suggested. Just to minimise the risk
Hopefully I'll have some good news to report.
Sounds like a good plan, and it'll be a sort of experiment to see what works best to save the plant! Hope you'll keep us updated.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:53 AM
Ffion Ffion is offline
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All done, this is my makeshift hospital
The other keiki has been potted separately in spag moss. Fingers crossed and I'll keep you updated!
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:46 AM
Regelian Regelian is offline
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Nobile-type Debdrobium need relatively large amounts of water. The pure bark medium is too dry for them. I use a mix with sphagnum and perlite, plus some fine bark. Fine bark alone way work, as well. In the growing season they should be given full light, without burning the foliage and good air circulation. Water and fertilizer for the entire Spring-Summer. When the bulbs are mature, cut back on the water but never let them go completely dry. Depending on your ambient humidity, daily misting may be all that is needed in the Winter. I have a few which I keep raised from the bottom (lava) in an oversized Cache-pot that always has some water in it. This maintains some humidity. Although these plant grow in partial shade in nature, this far North they need lots of light to do well. Also, as you probably know, they need a very cool rest (10°C) for about 2 months, otherwise no flowers, just keikeis. They are kept dryer in this time, but never bone dry.

I do not find them the easiest plants in our climate. Our Summers are very unstable, especially recently, and they seem to suffer from the constant temp and light fluctuations. Although one may summer them in the garden, they do best indoors yearout. My best plant is in a SE window: warm in Summer, cold in Winter.
Aaaand, D. Oriental Smile is available in Germany, just not always. Orchideengarten Karge has them listed, as well as a few nice crosses of their own. As it is a meristem, and popular, we will continue to see it for quite a few years (I hope!).
Jamie
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