Dendrobium growing keikis like mad, and Nobile + Phal type misbehaviour! What to do?? - Page 2 - Orchid Board

Blueszz · #11 05-13-2009, 05:02 AM

I've read that Den. Berry Oda doesn't need very bright light. I've read about dappled shade and early morning sun.
Mine had Dendrobium xdelicatum next to it on the window sill but Dendrobium Berry Oda showed a few burns (march, Netherlands, south window), while Den. xdelicatum didn't.

Mine is still indoors as it's in active growth and because it gets more light when I keep it a bit away from the south window, than when I put it outdoors on my roofed balcony. We have a lot of rain currently and I'm afraid the roots become too wet for the low temperatures (8-10 C) during the nights, besides currently day temperatures are between 15 and 21 C. Indoors I can provide temperatures between 19,5 and 22 C during day and night).
I hope the canes mature faster this way. Once we have real summer days and nights mine goes outdoors until temps go as low as 5-10 C.

It's my first year with Den. Berry Oda and Den. xdelicatum, so if this approach is succesfull I can't till you until it's blooming again :-)

BTW I have my Den. nobile (yamamoto type nobile) still indoors as it is in full growth and I still can provide enough light without burning the leaves. It is growing 4 canes and yesterday I noticed a keiki on the base of the plant. Woow if these all mature this year and I manage to reflower it... :-) It's going from 3 to 8 canes in one season!

I'll give Franssen Orchideeën (Dutch grower from Den. Berry Oda) a call and ask him about the abundancy of keikis. Maybe he can point out a culture problem ;-) Last time I had him on the phone he was very friendly and willing to help. If I have new information I'll let you know.

camille1585 · #12 05-13-2009, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueszz

I'll give Franssen Orchideeën (Dutch grower from Den. Berry Oda) a call and ask him about the abundancy of keikis. Maybe he can point out a culture problem ;-) Last time I had him on the phone he was very friendly and willing to help. If I have new information I'll let you know.

I'd be interested in knowing what they say! I noticed in the shops that none of the Berry Oda's for sale have any keikis. So why is it when we buy them they make so many keikis??

Blueszz · #13 05-13-2009, 05:26 AM

Here I am again.

I allready spoke to the Dutch grower and asked him what a reason could be some plants make so manny keikis. The first thing he came up with was lack of light. Lack of light would encourage vegative growth. Another possibilty is that when the plant goes from blooming stage to vegetative growth, sleeping eyes that could have become flower spikes, result in keikis.

I asked him if it could be wise for you to put your plant in the green house. He said, as long as during the day the greenhouses heats up by the sun, the plant keeps growing and growing, which is good. I asked him too what he thought the lowest temperature is Den. Berry Oda can take. He said it depends on other factors. For instance, when it's cold, lets say 5 C and the plants medium is fairly dry and the leaves are dry, it probably could take 5 C, but imagine heavy rainfall at 5 C followed by a strong wind, it could kill the plant.

9 C during the nights probably would be no problem for Den. Berry Oda, especially when during the days the green house warms up by the sun.

If you bring your plant into the green house I would suggest you don't put it on the cold floor but keep it from ground level for instance on a wooden bench to avoid the roots getting too cold. Or bring it in the greenhouse during the daytime hours and bring it indoors for the nights :-)

I told the grower I still have my Austrial den's indoors, a bit away from the south window so that it can enjoy some sun and the heat from the sun. He said that was a good thing to do as it grows better at higher temperatures, current outdoor temps here (15-21 C) could stunt the growht compared to the current indoor temps - but it seems I can provide enough light for Den. Berry Oda until now.

Nicole

Blueszz · #14 05-13-2009, 05:32 AM

Camille, Riko Fransen (notice the single s in Fransen en not double ss as I used before) mentioned importing plants from Thailand. I didn't ask how long they keep them in their own greenhouse. Sorry :-)
Actually, my Den. Berry Oda had one keiki when I bought it, the one that is sending out roots now and has a label with your name on it.
You are right with your observations, that plants that come straight from the grower, hardly carry keikis. Most of them non, sometimes they carry one... and that is what the grower said too.
Probably these are keikis that develop when the plant goes from blooming stage to vegative growth.

camille1585 · #15 05-13-2009, 05:40 AM

Looks like I need to fix the culture of my kingianum to stop getting such a large amount of keikis. When I got it it had only one keiki. I dodn't get blooms either this year. The problem is, if I put it where it can get enough light, it is not cool enough. If I focus on keeping it cool, that spot doesn't get enough light. I'm pulling my hair out with this one!
I know that my kingianum can withstand -3 C when it's completely dry. My mom left it out (aka, completely forgot about it) on the balcony until mid november

Blueszz · #16 05-13-2009, 05:54 AM

Camille, what I understood is that it doesn't have to stay cool during vegative growth and that 20 C and up is no problem, and that they even like that for vegative growth during summer. I think it needs the colder temperatures + bright light to induce blooming, let's say from end september until... flower spikes are visible. But since your den's are in France where it's warmer than here, I can imagine you start the winter rest later than the end of september?
What I've found online is that when I take the plants indoors, because it's getting too cold for them, I have to give them the brightest cool spot I can find, until flower spikes are visible. Once flower spikes are visible it should be able to take higher temps. I had spikes devellop around 13-17 C this winter in a South faced window. These spikes were allready visible when I bought the plant but they didn't have buds at that time. During this period they were *in* the window sill with an opened window. It was the max. of light I could provide.

My main concern during fall is keeping them fairly dry to avoid root rot (building them umbrella's LOL) + giving them the max of light on a north faced balcony as long as possible.

Let us keep in touch about Den. growing in Europe. We could learn a lot from each other!

PragmaticOrchidGrower · #17 05-13-2009, 05:55 AM

hm, so I'm getting more and more tempted to try the following with my Berry Oda:

Put it out into my greenhouse where it's really light now in a dappled shade under some sort of palm tree and cut back a little bit on the watering and fert. It's showing new growth too (two new canes growing outside the pot almost) so I don't think I should stop watering completely. In the greenhouse the temperatures during night gets to about 9 C but during daytime it can ger really warm (we're planning to better the ventilation) - up to 30 C.

Later on during summer I'll leave it outdoors at least during daytime in a spot where it's protected from all the rain we get during summer.

Let's see if that changes anything. In worst case I'll just get a new one next winter... hihi

The Nobiles I've got three of so I'll take one out to the same greenhouse and see what damage that does. I'm worried they are not getting enough light where they are.

Blueszz · #18 05-13-2009, 06:00 AM

Jannicke, sounds as a good plan, but let us know if your plants like this.
We all can learn from this.

Maybe you can use a fan in the green house to get more air circulation?

camille1585 · #19 05-13-2009, 06:24 AM

Jannicke, if it's showing new growths, I don't think you should cut back on watering. Normally when you rest these guys for the winter, water is cut back to every 3 weeks or so, no fert. Normal watering should pick up once new growths pop up or when the spikes are starting to develop, whichever comes first. That's how it's been explained to me, in theory.

Nicole, I realized that I left out in my post that the cold/bright problem was for the winter rest. The rest of the year it's either on the south facing balcony behind a shade clothe, or at my countryhouse enjoying the sun.

PragmaticOrchidGrower · #20 05-13-2009, 06:40 AM

yes, we have a fan but the windows aren't working correctly. They're supposed to open when it's about 20 C (when set to the lowest temp possible), but they don't open until it's about 30. So we're getting new ones from the manufacturer so we can actually chose to get them open as hot/cold as we like it.

I only meant to cut back a little bit on watering to get it to focus more on new growth and less on keikis, but I can see how it does with the new light and temp conditions first.