Are orange Cattleyas uncommon?
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:55 AM
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No-Pro-mwa No-Pro-mwa is offline
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Are orange Cattleyas uncommon? Female

Most of my Catt's come from Fred. I can never not get some every year when he puts out his new list.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:19 PM
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Are orange Cattleyas uncommon?

Originally Posted by plantluvver View Post
Fred Clarke's Sunset Valley Orchids, Inc.
Sunset Valley Orchids - Superior Hybrids for Orchid Enthusiasts

From what I could tell, his Cattleyas seem to be mostly seedlings from his own crosses. He sells others, too.
He is a very good vendor. I'll bet that orchid is beautiful.
I am a fan of fragrance in Cattleyas so I usually buy species, clones, or crosses that are very sure of being fragrant. Still, every now and then, I have been disappointed. :|
I decorate in green!
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:47 AM
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Are orange Cattleyas uncommon? Male

Originally Posted by plantluvver View Post
Then perhaps this isn't the rare treasure I thought it might be.

First, the vendor was trying to discourage me from looking for fragrance by saying fragrance was a recessive trait. But I am sure fragrance is much more complicated than that! Surely there must be multiple genes involved! (I asked his help, because I did not want to dig through his entire display unnecessarily.)

I did learn from him that all orchid genera ending "-ara" involve at least 4 genera. So there at likely
at least seven different ancestors in this cross. (Although it is possible the same species might appear in both lines)
I imagine that with such complex parentage, odd things might happen. Though I really am just guessing here.
Early on, they started the artificial genus names when there were 4 genera involved (Cattleya x Laelia x Brassavola x Sophronitis = Potinara). Later
it probably became a sport for some breeders to create plants deserving of such new names, and they started to do it for 3 genera.
With the subsequent transfers of many species from one genus to another (and sometimes a third or fourth), many of the original 'ara' names are no longer valid, and even more are now incorrect for the plants they are attached to.

Secondly, many breeding lines have reached 10-15 generations. Thus, a given Cattleya hybrid can easily have 10 or more different species in the background.

Thirdly, Fred Clarke is probably correct that fragrance is a recessive trait, but it is fairly pervasive in the Cattleya group.
Kim (Fair Orchids)

Founder of SPCOP (Society to Prevention of Cruelty to Orchid People), with the goal of barring the taxonomists from tinkering with established genera!

I am neither a 'lumper' nor a 'splitter', but I refuse to re-write millions of labels.
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:35 PM
plantluvver plantluvver is offline
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Are orange Cattleyas uncommon?

For clarification, I do not want to imply criticism of Fred Clarke. First, I do not know that it was Fred Clarke that said scent is recessive. Several people were working at the booth. Also, it was the afternoon of the third and last day of the show, and people were likely getting a bit grumpy.

And just now, I can smell that orchid. I see that the sun has just reached the bloom.

A second orchid from Fred is opening its first of four buds. No scent from it, at least not yet.
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Old 03-15-2018, 08:06 PM
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Are orange Cattleyas uncommon?

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Are orange Cattleyas uncommon? Female

Was the show the one in Santa Barbara? (Guessing that it might be, since you (plantluvvr) are now in Goleta) I don't thing Fred was staffing the booth... I was there on Saturday and didn't see hem. There are several people who handle the selling at shows - all knowledgeable guys. Unbloomed hybrid seedlings are surprise packages... the more complex the background, the more variation is likely, within a batch from the same seed pod (think children in a family) Getting a mericlone may come closer to providing a predictable flower (though there can be variation there too) but getting a seedling from a hybridizer is like buying a painting from an artist - it's unique. From SVO, pretty much the one near-guarantee is that it will be lovely.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" Carl Sagan
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