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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:42 PM
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Default Cattleya warneri var. pincelada

Here's a nice feathered warneri. Petals are large, but the general form could be a little more harmonic. This flower is also called var. integra because the purple mark in the lip covers it entirely leaving no pink border, which is a characteristic in the type flowers. Even though this classification (integra) is not recognized, it is commonly used by orchidists here in Brazil to distinguish this kind of flower.

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Old 10-25-2009, 08:44 PM
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Nice color form!
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:09 AM
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a true beauty... thanks forsharing Mauro
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:06 AM
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Very lovely, Mauro.

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Old 10-26-2009, 11:47 AM
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Well I whant to ask something about this beauty.

In Brazil is not allowed to mix two not exclusive "varieties" in the same name?...

Let me first explain myself to be fully understood

In Venezuelan horticultural case you can write in a tag things like semialba-delicata because in some cases mixed "varietal" possibilities can coexist in the same flower.... It isn't often used because in expos for judging purpose we only recognize type, coerulea, alba and semialba relegating things like "integra" to floral phenotype individuality that could reflect in more or less judging points (in this case a full colored solid lip will have much more points than the tiny "mosca"), but that is Venezuelan case only.

The horticultural "rule" for more than one coexisting variety in the same flower is first the variety that express overall flower color except if overall flower color is type, them second "if varietal name exist" the linguistic symbol that express of the labelum mark color or shape, and third also "if the varietal name exist" the linguistic symbol that express pleoric to variegated phenotypes on petals/sepals.

In your case using the Brazilian terminology will be Cattleya warneri var. integra-pincelada

The last thing could be accepted among Brazilian collectors????
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Pahl View Post
Well I whant to ask something about this beauty.

In Brazil is not allowed to mix two not exclusive "varieties" in the same name?...

Let me first explain myself to be fully understood

In Venezuelan horticultural case you can write in a tag things like semialba-delicata because in some cases mixed "varietal" possibilities can coexist in the same flower.... It isn't often used because in expos for judging purpose we only recognize type, coerulea, alba and semialba relegating things like "integra" to floral phenotype individuality that could reflect in more or less judging points (in this case a full colored solid lip will have much more points than the tiny "mosca"), but that is Venezuelan case only.

The horticultural "rule" for more than one coexisting variety in the same flower is first the variety that express overall flower color except if overall flower color is type, them second "if varietal name exist" the linguistic symbol that express of the labelum mark color or shape, and third also "if the varietal name exist" the linguistic symbol that express pleoric to variegated phenotypes on petals/sepals.

In your case using the Brazilian terminology will be Cattleya warneri var. integra-pincelada

The last thing could be accepted among Brazilian collectors????
Among orchidists, here in Brazil, it is common using two, or even three, varietal names co-existing in the same flower, Jan. Some nurseries also adopt this. A friend in the State of Espirito Santo has a warneri which, besides pincelada, has the entire lip of solid purple, including the side lobes. He uses to call it C. warneri integra-orlata-pincelada.
I don't have anything against using more than one varietal name, but I try to use one whenever I feel one of them is horticulturally more significant. In this case, the peloric traits on the petals are more significant (in my opinion) than the lip completely covered by purple (which, in the end, falls within the type variability). Nevertheless, in case the flower has only the solid lip and no other co-existing variation, I see no problem calling it integra, which is the case of another warneri I'm posting soon!
The big problem here in Brazil with epithets like 'integra', 'orlata', marginata or atropurpurea in C. warneri, all of them referring to a particular shape of the purple blotch on the lip, is that there's no consensus among orchidists about what is what. Take the following flower as an example , some call it marginata for its well-defined pink band bordering the mid-lobe. Others say that marginata is the flower which lip has the purple color covering the mid lobe and spreading through the side lobes... but that is atropurpurea for others... well, sleep with all this noise!!
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:20 PM
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hehehe Mauro that's always happen with horticultural names, someone with recognized respect inside the species group of collectors creates a new varietal name because it fells like it worth it, the name start to be used, others came I say that the phenotype was "described" 150 year earlier or have a "better" Latin terminology, them others say that they not recognize that thing because the referred phenotype was described as a part of a preexisting used name that creates more confusions than solve classification, and others start to note that many cultivars are difficult to exactly put in one or other variety, and Voila, confusion start to appear and reproduce itself like virus... With no exception it ends with the good effort of one grower trying to put some sense in to the potpourri of horticultural names mix with botanical terms, and ends with even more confusion, I mean, people that use the "new" system, people that use "old" terminology, and even people that prefer to use varietal "dialects"...

I think that Venezuelan collectors ended with the 5 standard "forma" plus type (alba, albescens, semialba, coerulea and concolor) just because we had with Cattleya mossiae so many "varieties" in the past (around 100-120), that collectors from my previous generation decided for simplicity it like botany does. We have here 5 unifoliates that have exactly the same amount of variavility, so imagine 120 varietal names changing names form species to species.... none have the memory to deal with 600 names or worst,120 plants just to say that someone have a collection that covers all the "basic" of the species.

With years I started to like the simplicity we use here of formas, but I still find some cases that had to be borrow from still used Brazilian names like "vinicolor", "rubra","mosca" and "aquinii" for the "rep-lipped", "very dark ones", "the almost concolor ones" and "the variegated/pleoric ones", or even old names like "Delicata" (amonea + amesiana in Brazil) and suavissima (almost semialba) to note something in the phenotype that somehow have a particular charm to be noted somehow. But the use of those names are informal and seldom usage or acceptance...

Since the 5 recognized formas here cover almost all overall color possibilities with the exception of color hue, them the labelum "color-shape" in Venezuelan case had to be described with words like stripes, veins, sprinkled and solid lip noticing if is necessary if that phenotype occurs in the Lobe (central, upper, lower,lateral) or something interesting occur in the throat or in the the margins...

You know, I find very interesting that these differences of how the major large unifoliate country bearers (((Colombia,Venezuela and Brazil) manage their species classification reflects on opinions even on AOS judging members and book affirmations... I personally heard and read at least a 100 times that Brazilian unifoliates (specially labiata) are much more variable than other unifoliates with the exception of trianae, something completely non-true, even percivaliana, quadricolor and gaskelliana that occurs in very small geographic areas have the same variability other large unifoliates have.

:^)

Last edited by Jan Pahl; 10-26-2009 at 05:23 PM..
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:01 PM
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It's another really gorgeous one Mauro!
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