Cattleya walkeriana and nobilior -- down the rabbit hole - Orchid Board

MJG · #1 10-15-2020, 09:12 PM

I have fallen head over heels with these two species. Reading online to try to fill in some blanks has led to confusion. I'm a newb so bear with me.

First, walkeriana. You can find some of the different color forms for sale online but it's very confusing. For example the alba form. Some sellers list theirs as Catteya walkeriana var. alba. Period. (Or f. alba.) Others modify the nomenclature with 'Pendentive', 'Kenny', etc. and describe specific attributes. I assumed those were culivar names. Then I read that 'Pendentive' isn't fully walkeriana, it's partially dolosa. I also read that the "real" walkeriana f. alba has a pure white lip, not any yellow. Anything with yellow in the lip has some hybrid in it. Really? And prices are ALL over the map.

So if you buy Cattleya walkeriana var. alba 'Pendentive' AM/AOS from Hauserman for $20, you're getting a bargain, but not a walkeriana? I bought a Cattleya walkeriana f. alba x sib from Marlow. It will have a yellow disc on its labellum. Is it really a walkeriana? And so on.

So how do you know what's actually a species walkeriana?
How do you know what you're actually getting from a seller?
How do you know what's a fair price?

I get further confused by the other color forms.

And finally, what is up with nobiliors? I spent 2 days searching online for a nobilior for sale. All I found was a few "sold out" listings. Why are walkerianas in some color forms and particularly nobiliors in any color form so hard to find online? Is there another source besides vendors online?

For now I'm just trying to get a few inexpensive ones to learn on. But geez.

Ok, that's a lot of questions to one thread. Maybe verging on a rant. Thanks!

estación seca · #2 10-15-2020, 09:22 PM

What was named C. walkeriana 'Pendentive' is now considered by many people to be the primary hybrid C. Dolosa, which occurs naturally.

C. nobilior is considered difficult to grow in most of the US, so there aren't many around.

H&R in Hawaii has a lot of real walkerianas.

thefish1337 · #3 10-15-2020, 09:34 PM

Famous post by Harry of H & R nurseries

This is a really good overview on how to grow walkeriana's well. He is the only person who consistently is adamant about not exposing the plants to light during the night (even streetlights). You will not read that anywhere else in my experience. Even when I called him to order some orchids he reiterated that they be dark for enough time at night to initiate blooming- otherwise the will just make growths.

SouthPark · #4 10-15-2020, 10:00 PM

MJG ------ there has been, and still is much talk going on about walkeriana ..... ranging from people talking about a particular species walkeriana having the general behaviour of 1 leaf per pseudobulb --- all the way through to natural and human-made crosses between various varieties of the walkeriana species.

But it is also known that orchids that are said to have a 1 leaf per bulb behaviour can occasionally put out 2 leaves for a bulb.

I think that - just ----- walkeriana will have a particular look about them in general. Some have side-lobes that are flared right out (ie. opened right out). Others have slight flaring. I prefer not fully flared ----- just my own likes hehe.

I don't grow walkeriana though. I may grow some in the future --- have ran out of growing space haha.

I think in general ----- go for the one(s) that you really like. If it looks like a walkeriana flower - shape ------ then I just count that as a walkeriana.

Leafmite · #5 10-16-2020, 02:06 AM

Good choices. I have several hybrids with walkeriana in them.

As already stated, there is quite a bit of debate about the C. walkeriana 'Pendentive' being the species walkeriana and not the Dolosa, so if having the real thing is important to you, that one is not going to work.

As for finding the real walkeriana, get them from reliable sources. SVO and Andy's Orchids might know where to find them. Miranda Orchids, J&L orchids and Orchids limited currently have them. Gold Country Orchids might have them, too (it is on their website). These are all reliable vendors that would sell you the real thing. Hausermann's is honest enough to let you know and let you decide for yourself. They sometimes offer the real one, too. Good luck!

Keysguy · #6 10-16-2020, 07:26 AM

And is it Walkeriana 'Kenny' that I read somewhere is also considered by many to be a hybrid and not a true color form?

MJG · #7 10-16-2020, 09:08 AM

Great information, thanks so much!!

It sounds like the 'Pententive' issue hasn't been 100% agreed on yet after all. So it makes more sense that it's still being listed for sale as walkeriana.

The natural hybrid aspect really muddies the water, doesn't it? I hadn't even thought about that. How could you really know that a plant isn't a "true" walkeriana species unless it's a man-made hybrid.

I read about someone who bought a walkeriana, and noticed over time that it looked like a walkeriana but didn't exhibit the characteristic clinging roots. He decided it wasn't entirely walkeriana.

Maybe this makes it a more enigmatic orchid for me. Or maybe this happens a lot with other orchids too?! I'm going to chill out and enjoy the ride. Thanks for the link and the helpful buying references!!

Subrosa · #8 10-16-2020, 12:58 PM

I keep several nobilior in semi-hydro and don't find them to be particularly difficult. Supposedly they're prone to rot during dormancy, but I haven't had an issue with it.