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  #1  
Old 04-05-2020, 05:05 AM
silanah77 silanah77 is offline
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Wine Delight start water on not?
Default Wine Delight start water on not?

Hello everyone,
I have a question about my Wine Delight-I don't know if I have to start to water it. First I was hoping that I can wait until the new roots reach the bottom of the pot, but now I saw that the previous bulb(the second one) became a little soft when I touch it. So my question is - can I moisture the moss or not? I'm sorry for my English.

Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 04-05-2020, 05:41 AM
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SouthPark SouthPark is offline
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Originally Posted by silanah77 View Post
So my question is - can I moisture the moss or not?
Silanah - yes ----- you can. But make sure to read important details below first.

I recommend putting the orchid in an area that has some air-movement ----- a growing area that doesn't have still-air. And maintain recommended growing temperature range for the orchid.

And you can gently spray a little bit of water into the media ....... but don't over-do it. Just enough to make the media lightly damp. Lightly damp. You don't even have to get every bit of the media in the pot damp. Just some moisture in the pot can at least allow some roots to absorb that moisture.

And you can read this post too : Click Here.

Alternatively, you could even use a water spray nozzle to spray water into the regions toward the outer edge of the pot. This allows some water to get down into the media toward the sides, which can help keep the moisture/humidity up in the pot (for the roots). If necessary, you can remove some of that surface spaghnum near the rim (of the pot), in order to direct water spray into the media around the edge (rim) of the pot.

Wine Delight start water on not?-watering-jpg

Also - as long as the temperature is not super cold, and the spaghnum stays lightly damp only (lightly damp!), some water getting onto the new roots and old roots won't harm the orchid at all. It won't harm the roots or the orchid.

Everyone has their own method. My method has been with this setup Click Here, which gives me the option to spray lots of water into the regions near the side/rim, and it also allows me to spray some water into the spaghnum region. I control the water in the pot in this way.

Basically - when my catasetum arrives by post, my seller (source of orchid) has the orchid already growing in the firmly packed spaghnum. So when it arrives, I unpot the orchid (leaving the spaghnum mass as-is). Then I add the orchid (keeping the spaghnum mass) to my new larger pot (as shown in my setup).

If 100% spaghnum is used (alone), then that's absolutely fine. Excellent results can be achieved with 100% spaghnum - just need to not over-do things with the watering - as spaghnum becoming too wet will definitely drown the roots.

One extra note is - many professional growers pack the spaghnum relatively firmly, not loose-packed. Relatively firmly, but not so firm as to crush/destroy roots.....VIDEO

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Last edited by SouthPark; 04-05-2020 at 08:45 PM..
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  #3  
Old 04-05-2020, 09:36 AM
silanah77 silanah77 is offline
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Wine Delight start water on not?
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Silanah - yes ----- you can. But make sure to read important details below first.

I recommend putting the orchid in an area that has some air-movement ----- a growing area that doesn't have still-air. And maintain recommended growing temperature range for the orchid.

And you can gently spray a little bit of water into the media ....... but don't over-do it. Just enough to make the media lightly damp. Lightly damp. You don't even have to get every bit of the media in the pot damp. Just some moisture in the pot can at least allow some roots to absorb that moisture.

And you can thread this post too : Click Here.

Alternatively, you could even use a water spray nozzle to spray water into the regions toward the outer edge of the pot. This allows some water to get down into the media toward the sides, which can help keep the moisture/humidity up in the pot (for the roots). If necessary, you can remove some of that surface spaghnum near the rim (of the pot), in order to direct water spray into the media around the edge (rim) of the pot.

Wine Delight start water on not?-watering-jpg

Also - as long as the temperature is not super cold, and the spaghnum stays lightly damp only (lightly damp!), some water getting onto the new roots and old roots won't harm the orchid at all. It won't harm the roots or the orchid.

Everyone has their own method. My method has been with this setup Click Here, which gives me the option to spray lots of water into the regions near the side/rim, and it also allows me to spray some water into the spaghnum region. I control the water in the pot in this way.

Basically - when my catasetum arrives by post, my seller (source of orchid) has the orchid already growing in the firmly packed spaghnum. So when it arrives, I unpot the orchid (leaving the spaghnum mass as-is). Then I add the orchid (keeping the spaghnum mass) to my new larger pot (as shown in my setup).

If 100% spaghnum is used (alone), then that's absolutely fine. Excellent results can be achieved with 100% spaghnum - just need to not over-do things with the watering - as spaghnum becoming too wet will definitely drown the roots.

One extra note is - many professional growers pack the spaghnum relatively firmly, not loose-packed. Relatively firmly, but not so firm as to crush/destroy roots.....VIDEO


Thank you very, very much, SouthPark for the detailed info! Unfortunately, here in my region the weather is variable this month - from sunny days last week to snow this week, so my orchid is inside and there is not enough of air-movement, but the temperatures inside are warm enough I think. I'm keeping it in a second pot with a water on the bottom, near bright light(not straight sun). But I'll apply a little moisture around the corners of the pot as you said - thank you again!
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  #4  
Old 04-05-2020, 09:55 AM
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Most welcome silanah. Keep us posted later about the progress of this orchid. And all the very best of course.

If temperatures inside are warm enough, then that will be nice for the orchid.
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:14 PM
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No need to water that plant for another month at least. The backbulbs are still plump and can support the new growth. Also, you run the risk of killing the new roots, which often resent moist media at this tender stage.

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

I actually just published a new video about this very topic: Catasetums- Spring Tips and Tricks - YouTube
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2020, 03:35 PM
silanah77 silanah77 is offline
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Wine Delight start water on not?
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No need to water that plant for another month at least. The backbulbs are still plump and can support the new growth. Also, you run the risk of killing the new roots, which often resent moist media at this tender stage.

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

I actually just published a new video about this very topic: Catasetums- Spring Tips and Tricks - YouTube
Thank you, very much for your advise! I sprayed the moss just a little at the edges and put the orchid in a place with air movement. The previous bulb is not exactly plump, it started to become a little soft. But the sphagnum moss is mostly dry and I keep the plant in a second pot with water on the bottom. I also think not to water it soon. Thank you again and have a nice day!
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2020, 04:20 AM
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I don't remember who it was that had tested and suggested (forgive me if it's one of you who replied to this thread already!) giving a very small amount of water on the opposite side of the pot as the new growth. It was no more than a teaspoon at a time, rather infrequently, and was meant to help keep the old bulbs from shriveling too much while they fed the new growths, while keeping the new roots completely dry. I tested it last season and it works quite well, without putting the new growth at risk of rot as Isurus79 points out. But if the old bulbs are good enough still to support the new growths, best to hold off on water until the new roots are developed more.
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Last edited by camille1585; 04-13-2020 at 12:29 PM.. Reason: typos
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  #8  
Old 04-13-2020, 05:48 AM
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I don't remember who it was that had tested and suggested (forgive me if it's one of you who replied to this thread already!) giving a very small amount of water on the opposite side of the pot as the new growth.
Camille - that was 'orchidsarefun'. He did the opposite side of growth watering.

I took it a step further and tested light watering on the same side of the growth. Lightly wetting the new roots and the surrounding media. This is for catasetum type plants coming out of true dormancy.

And at this time, I have about 5 catasetum in true dormancy right now (ie. true dormant state), and I'm already beginning to keep the media lightly moist while they're in dormancy. And then, when they start activating again - I'll do the same thing as last season, and will lightly water their newly emerging roots, every day.

I have no issue about reducing the risk of killing catasetum or roots due to over-watering the media, and causing root suffocation (by with-holding watering up to some point). That I have no problem with.

My disagreement with isurus79 is about the incorrect information (that he and a few others are giving out) about wetting/moisture (even lightly) on newly emerging roots causing them (new roots) to stall and/or die, and causing the new growth to die as well. That particular information is wrong - and some growers mentioned that they have had no issues.

The risk for new growers is - making the media too soggy or wet, so that the roots embedded in the media may die of suffocation. Or very cold plus wet could cause a problem too. Or even very cold plus very wet.

If the catasetum is grown with suitable temperatures, and oxygen starvation is avoided by not creating drenched media - then there will be no problem.

What I've seen from the testing is - not only do the newly emerging roots keep growing down into the media. The old roots in the media are still alive during and after dormancy. So the catasetum orchids will simply be free to grow nicely through the new season.

Importantly ..... my opinion and report isn't for creating conflict. Only for conveying the testable reality. Testable by anybody. It's all starting to become evident .... that other growers have found no issues ..... not surprising because they are applying all that should be known for orchid growing in general.


Last edited by SouthPark; 04-13-2020 at 08:50 AM..
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:21 PM
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I will try to articulate my feelings about this topic. Southpark, I don't think Isurus79 is giving incorrect information about moisture and new roots. Like you say, some growers say they have no problems when wetting the new roots early. But I see this more as the exception to the 'rule' as advised by Isurus and many other Catasetinae experts, and it doesn't invalidate the 'rule'.

I'm not saying you are wrong, (there is nothing wrong with your approach and great results) but it's important to be careful when giving out advice when not all of the cultural parameters are known. The classic, tried and tested approach of not watering too early has the advantage of working in a very wide range of conditions and a wide range of Catasetum hybrids and species. Basically, success is nearly guaranteed, even for beginners, because there is so much cumulative experience with it.

What you have brought up is the "yes but" arguements, which I think are better left to growers with at least a few seasons of Cat experience under their belts. Yes, watering early can work very well, but you have to have some idea of what you are doing first. Inexperienced growers are usually better off with the classic culture advice, and I think it's something we should all think about when beginners ask questions about Catasetinae or other genera.
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
I will try to articulate my feelings about this topic. Southpark, I don't think Isurus79 is giving incorrect information about moisture and new roots. Like you say, some growers say they have no problems when wetting the new roots early. But I see this more as the exception to the 'rule' as advised by Isurus and many other Catasetinae experts, and it doesn't invalidate the 'rule'.

I'm not saying you are wrong, (there is nothing wrong with your approach and great results) but it's important to be careful when giving out advice when not all of the cultural parameters are known. The classic, tried and tested approach of not watering too early has the advantage of working in a very wide range of conditions and a wide range of Catasetum hybrids and species. Basically, success is nearly guaranteed, even for beginners, because there is so much cumulative experience with it.

What you have brought up is the "yes but" arguements, which I think are better left to growers with at least a few seasons of Cat experience under their belts. Yes, watering early can work very well, but you have to have some idea of what you are doing first. Inexperienced growers are usually better off with the classic culture advice, and I think it's something we should all think about when beginners ask questions about Catasetinae or other genera.
Well said.
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