Quest for easier to grow seeds for science project at a non-profit

[Subrosa]

Most North American terrestrial species can be germinated on decaying cellulose, aka wet cardboard.

[ferricyanide]

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

Try epidendrum radicans seeds. They germinate readily. I am sorry for the response you got. That is not characteristic of that poster.... Or I hope any of us.

Thank you, i just found a legitimate looking listing for these and i can order them to start.

---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Leafmite

Do you have any smaller orchid businesses or Orchid Society near where you? Usually, there is someone who knows someone.....

I cannot personally help you but I wish you luck with your endeavor.

Thank you for the suggestion, i think there is a small one and i will look into reaching out to them in the next couple days.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

You really would be better off first doing tissue culture. While still quite involved and time consuming, "guinea pig" plants are cheaply and easily available. You could even get a phal or two from a BBS and pollinate the flowers to get your own seedpods. In the interim of waiting for pod maturation, you could work on the tissue culture angle.

This seems like a good idea, this weekend i will bring up getting some plants that we can pollinate. And see about working on some tissue cultures in the mean time.

[Fairorchids]

While some of the terrestrials have shorter time lines, be aware that you are looking at this time line for most orchids:

From pollination to harvest takes 4-10 months (green) or 6-16 months (dry).

Germination takes another 6-12 months.

Re-plating (spacing protocorns apart in 2nd flask) takes another 6-12 months.

Growing deflasked seedlings to blooming size ranges from:
6-18 months for the smaller Phalaenopsis and Maudiae type Paphiopedilum.

through 4-7 years for standard size Cattleyas

and out to 12-16 years for some of the multi-floral Paphiopedilum (specifically Paph. sanderianum).

So you need to be prepared for a 5-10 year time line.

[ferricyanide]

Originally Posted by epiphyte78

In my own personal experience the seeds of the common reed-stem Epidendrums and Bletilla striata easily germinate. I just sow the seeds on top of some moist New Zealand Sphagnum moss in a zip lock bag that's by a bright window.

Thank you those are at the top of my list. Those were some of the first threads i read when i found the forum. I did ask for suggestions because i was curious if they would be the same (sometimes different people recommend completely different things, but those seem to be widely recommended).

Also might be fun to try a non lab method too with the moss and window sill.

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Subrosa

Most North American terrestrial species can be germinated on decaying cellulose, aka wet cardboard.

Might be worth trying along with the moss. For things like the epidendrum radicans seeds.

---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

While some of the terrestrials have shorter time lines, be aware that you are looking at this time line for most orchids:

From pollination to harvest takes 4-10 months (green) or 6-16 months (dry).

Germination takes another 6-12 months.

Re-plating (spacing protocorns apart in 2nd flask) takes another 6-12 months.

Growing deflasked seedlings to blooming size ranges from:
6-18 months for the smaller Phalaenopsis and Maudiae type Paphiopedilum.

through 4-7 years for standard size Cattleyas

and out to 12-16 years for some of the multi-floral Paphiopedilum (specifically Paph. sanderianum).

So you need to be prepared for a 5-10 year time line.

I definitely think we will start with terrestrial varieties, which generally sound like the easier ones to work with.

I don't think we are very interested in raising all these orchids from seed all the way to maturity. We will probably just buy some mature plants to get the seed pods just for the classes/projects. I was under the impression that we would have flasking classes and send the students that took part in the class home with their flasks that they prepared.... Either that day or we keep them until its time to replate and have lesson 2 and have them do the jars from 6-12 months ago. Im sure we would keep some of the flasks as well and raise some. Maybe use them in other projects/classes. Other committees might like them for various art projects.


He mentioned the flasking took a couple years, but i guess i need to ask more specifically about the long term plan.

[dansyr]

Not too much else I can add here, but some epiphytic spp do germinate more rapidly (I had some Dens germinate in a little less than a month), so that's a semester-scale project (naively assuming your project is school-year based). Also helps to keep kids from losing attention

If you're willing to skip the germination and skip to the TC side you talked about, I have plenty (PLENTY) of den seedlings of various sizes in axenic culture I can try to send some if you want. Some phal mericlones at various stages too.

[orchidsarefun]

Take a look at Habenarias. They easily bloom within 18 months of flasking. I know because I've done it via my seed flasking service. The issue is availability of seed.
I recommend that you contact Marni Turkel or Orchid Origins - they may have orchid seed available for educational/experimental purposes. It's worth the phone calls.

I may have a flask available in the next 3 months, depending on when replating occurs and whether enough flasks can be created. Let me know. Shouldn't cost more than $25 including postage. Put this suggestion to Marni or Sean at Orchid Origins too.

[estación seca]

I would strongly recommend you first learn basic sterile technique and basic bacteriology technique before moving on to orchid seeds, or your failure rate will be very high. The skills can be learned but are extremely dependent on paying very careful attention, and learning entirely new ways to move and be aware of what is around you. You can probably find a basic bacteriology course at local community college.

The skills and equipment are identical: preparing and sterilizing media, preparing and sterilizing tools and equipment, putting the cultures into the media. But there is a very high and steep learning and performance curve to conquer.

[ferricyanide]

Originally Posted by dansyr

Not too much else I can add here, but some epiphytic spp do germinate more rapidly (I had some Dens germinate in a little less than a month), so that's a semester-scale project

Thank you, i will keep those in mind. We're actually just a large makerspace. Depending we teach classes to our members and certain classes are public classes (generally those with dangerous equipment). Our science committee tries to keep as many of our classes publicly available as possible. It's our committee leader's policy though we're pretty much all in agreement. We like getting people interested in science. We have some classes for some home schooled kids as well. I doubt the flasking would be a home schooled project, but who knows what the future holds.

Originally Posted by dansyr

If you're willing to skip the germination and skip to the TC side you talked about, I have plenty (PLENTY) of den seedlings of various sizes in axenic culture I can try to send some if you want. Some phal mericlones at various stages too.

I will talk to him tomorrow (Sunday afternoon) and will get back with you and see if it is something he is interested in.

---------- Post added at 11:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

Take a look at Habenarias. They easily bloom within 18 months of flasking. I know because I've done it via my seed flasking service. The issue is availability of seed.
I recommend that you contact Marni Turkel or Orchid Origins - they may have orchid seed available for educational/experimental purposes. It's worth the phone calls.

I may have a flask available in the next 3 months, depending on when replating occurs and whether enough flasks can be created. Let me know. Shouldn't cost more than $25 including postage. Put this suggestion to Marni or Sean at Orchid Origins too.

Thank you i will add the Habenarias to my list. I will talk with him about orchid origins as well on Sunday and see about one of us calling.

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

Originally Posted by estación seca

I would strongly recommend you first learn basic sterile technique and basic bacteriology technique before moving on to orchid seeds, or your failure rate will be very high. The skills can be learned but are extremely dependent on paying very careful attention, and learning entirely new ways to move and be aware of what is around you. You can probably find a basic bacteriology course at local community college.

The skills and equipment are identical: preparing and sterilizing media, preparing and sterilizing tools and equipment, putting the cultures into the media. But there is a very high and steep learning and performance curve to conquer.

Thank you for the suggestion. I learned a lot about sterilization from my microbiology course in college. We did various tests and cultures all semester. Then i had 2 different jobs where i grew bacteria/mold for testing. One of the jobs that's all i did, i was a pathogen analyst. That was before i managed to squeak into a more chemistry related job.

I'll have to quiz him over his technique though. There are plenty of instructions on here and someone sent me some they got from Kevin Western. And he has some as well. We'll probably review several of them and pick a couple different methods to try and see what works the best when we get to that point of the project.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Try finding a source of Bletilla striata bulbs at some of your local nurseries during spring. Produce seeds from them, then sowing the seeds in-vitro. These shouldn't be overly difficult. The plants are also easy to grow.

Epidendrum radicans is another good choice, but hand pollination of the flowers would be rather difficult because of how small everything is. This orchid is also easy to grow.

Other choices would be Disa aurata, Disa tripetaloides, or Disa unifora seeds. Try going on the Afrodisa website and asking if there are any seeds available. (Contact - AFRODISA)

Note: Evergreen stream side Disa spp. are usually pretty easy to germinate from seed, but are difficult to grow as plants. They can also be a challenge to deflask if you do not have prior experience to growing freshly deflasked seedlings before.

Another species to try would be Cynorkis fastigiata. It is not necessary to hand pollinate this species, they are autogamous. The fruit set is pretty fast. Pod maturation is about 2 months. There is almost 100% fruit set. Plus, the plants themselves are relatively easy to grow.

Orchid seeds are difficult to come across in general. Hope this sets you in the right direction.

[ferricyanide]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Try finding a source of Bletilla striata bulbs at some of your local nurseries during spring. Produce seeds from them, then sowing the seeds in-vitro. These shouldn't be overly difficult. The plants are also easy to grow.

Epidendrum radicans is another good choice, but hand pollination of the flowers would be rather difficult because of how small everything is. This orchid is also easy to grow.

Other choices would be Disa aurata, Disa tripetaloides, or Disa unifora seeds. Try going on the Afrodisa website and asking if there are any seeds available. (Contact - AFRODISA)

Note: Evergreen stream side Disa spp. are usually pretty easy to germinate from seed, but are difficult to grow as plants. They can also be a challenge to deflask if you do not have prior experience to growing freshly deflasked seedlings before.

Another species to try would be Cynorkis fastigiata. It is not necessary to hand pollinate this species, they are autogamous. The fruit set is pretty fast. Pod maturation is about 2 months. There is almost 100% fruit set. Plus, the plants themselves are relatively easy to grow.

Orchid seeds are difficult to come across in general. Hope this sets you in the right direction.

Oh wow so I typed out a really long message here earlier and it didn't go through for some reason.

Thank you for the extra species suggestions.

Anyways, I am planning to compile a spread sheet of the different species and their benefits so that my list will be easier to cross check with what I manage to find. (Like easier to flask or short time from germination to seed pod.)

I have a lot I am currently trying to work on. Several months ago I took some gardening classes and I found out recently that the lady that taught those classes are big into orchids so we are trying to arrange a time for her to tour our place and us to tour her greenhouse (shes like a hour away though). It's a bit close to the Christmas holiday so it might be a while before we work something out. (She and her husband do breeding and flasking for shows so hopefully they have some good tips.)

Also someone is sending me some seeds (yay). He didn't say exactly what he is included in the pack but I should have it in a few days. He did mention Bletilla striata and Calopogon tuberosa as possibilities before he mailed it. So I will see what is in that pack.

Epidendrum radicans are still at the top of my list for a starter/practice plant.

We have a nice write up on media and flasking from someone that runs a flasking company. I intended to compare it to the instructions that they guy seeding the seeds includes.

And we did briefly discuss making a greenwall/ orchidarium way down the road in the future for the orchids we keep.

So we have a good start so far at least.