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  #1  
Old 11-19-2018, 11:55 AM
mook1178 mook1178 is offline
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Ordered a Phal Yu Pin Natsume w/possible keiki Male
Default Ordered a Phal Yu Pin Natsume w/possible keiki

I recently placed an order with Odom's Orchids. I am very pleased with the order overall.

I just have a question. As the title says I ordered a Phal Yu Pin Natsume. Upon arrival, I see there are two crowns to this orchid. I was a bit surprised and seem to think that one of the crowns is a Keiki. I have added pics of both sides of the crowns.

If it is a Keiki, is it big enough to remove and be put in its own pot? How would I do that?
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2018, 12:10 PM
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Depending on parentage, some Phals make basal growths and form clumps. Don't even think of removing it... along with the very good possibility that one or both would die, it is better to have a multi-growth, multi-spike plant than two scrawny divisions.
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:03 PM
mook1178 mook1178 is offline
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Thank you Roberta.

I also got a reply from Odom's and they said that I shouldn't remove it anytime soon as well. They did suggest removing it when it has a well established root system of its own. They also said that yellow phals are prone to do this.
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2018, 07:16 PM
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Dollythehun Dollythehun is offline
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I recently separated a phal in the same situation. I see I'm already losing a leaf on the "mother" plant. I'd do as you were told and leave it alone.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2018, 09:04 PM
TomThumb TomThumb is offline
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I received a seedling sized Phal with a crown keiki that probably destroyed the mother plants crown and was still trying to send roots into the mother plant. I removed the keiki that had a visible one cm long root to find that the two it was sending into the mom were in the process of growing but also rotting? If I had left them neither would have made it. As it is neither might make it right now.

I was also given a NOID big box store Phal by my neighbor that also had a crown keiki. They got it from work because they like to have fresh flowers. However someone tried to water the keiki and there was rot in the mother crown. Needless to say I immediately removed the keiki. The plant also appears infected with something. It's not anywhere near my other plants but I still might bin it because it scares me.

This keiki looks fine so I would leave it.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:16 PM
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Certainly if there is rot, surgery is in order. But to divide a healthy plant (which in the case of OP appears to be the case) just to get two plants for the price of one does not seem to me to be indicated here. A "basal keiki" in a plant that tends in that direction due to its parentage (as indicated by Odom, which knows the plant's background, it's not a grocery store NOID) is not going to weaken the plant. So not the same situation at all. A Phal may indeed make a keiki (basal or otherwise) to try to survive if it is ailing (or even try to bloom to give one last chance at reproduction), and at the point the plant is weak. However, this is also a way that some Phals propagate themselves, by making clumps, where the plant is very healthy and wants to create a "colony", which appears to be the case here. Let nature be natural!

For what it's worth, I have a Phal stuartiana that produceda terminal spike (in the middle of the crown), then after the blooms faded the crown died but the root system was great, it almost immediately produced a basal keiki, which has grown rapidly, and now less than a year later is getting ready to bloom. No cutting was involved, I let nature do what she wanted to do , and the results are delightful. The species heritage is important... some just do tend to make clumps, and for those that do, a beautiful display can be the result.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2018, 11:02 PM
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Yes. Honestly I much prefer to leave keikis on the mother as long as both are healthy. It really makes me wonder tho when I see crown keikis where neither would do well. The keiki seems to be programmed to send roots straight into the mother's crown thereby destroying the mother but the wayward roots are also inhibited and prone to dying off, then rotting in the mother's crown. I can't imagine that this is good for the plant's survival but maybe it only happens to complex hybrids which are what my two phals with crown keikis are.
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2018, 12:53 AM
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Just for grins, I looked up the parentage of this hybrid in Orchidwiz .
A significant portion (like about 60%) of its pedigree does include species that would tend to make multiple crowns - clusters of basal growths. (Phal amboinensis and Phal lueddemanniana). The latter also makes keikis on flower spikes... in fact, tends to ramble. The species are many generations back - this is a very complex hybrid - but they certainly make their influence felt. Both of these species also have flowers with heavy substance - which from the pictures, also is a characteristic of this hybrid. OK, I'm a species nut... but I find it really interesting to see where these characteristics come from. (It's something one can only do with a registered hybrid, one can only make guesses without that history)
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:31 AM
mook1178 mook1178 is offline
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Roberta

Thank you for all the info! Sounds like I have a really nice hybrid on my hands.
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