What part of orchid culture am I not understanding? - Orchid Board

KokeshiHappyGreen · #1 06-15-2017, 04:18 PM

EDIT: Below is my Original post. Since then I’ve figured out a lot and my Brassavola little stars is doing great! I will post a separate update under the title Perseverance and the tale of a Brassavola little stars. Please don’t ever get discouraged and give up...even if you think you don’t understand anything! Happy orchid keeping!!!

I newbie here. Hope this post has accurate enough title and is correct thread; if not, moderator feel free to edit 👍🏻

Since Nov 2016, I've been trying my hand at caring for orchids; unfortunately I kinda went mainly with YouTube info before I found Cullina's book and, esp, you guys. Perhaps if I'd found you Before I got started I might not have killed (and possibly be killing more) orchids. Mind you, I Did know the orchids I bought were already stressed but thought perhaps it would be better to try and rescue orchids before taking on really expensive and or more complicated ones. I think I got that thought process backwards!!! I've done nothing but waste money, Orchid lives, and time and energy...for Nothing really. Although I Hope I've at least learned something from it.

Indeed I Have learned about many diff types of culture, but what I can't seem to figure out is how it plays out in my particular environment. It seems no matter what Type of culture I try, my orchids die. (Although I think it's at least Partly down to the fact the orchids were already on their way out, despite appearances. My inexperience just added to how quickly things went downhill).

I thought my Current set of orchids would fare better...but I think I screwed up that chance by getting convinced that if I wanted to do full water culture (looked like a viable option and someone near me has pretty good success) all I needed to really make sure of was that the orchid had good roots. Well I thought they were at least "better" than my last set of plants. Better being the operative word; Fail!

Better just doesn't cut it. Nor does getting so anxious to save an orchid that I, again, repeated the fast paced change up medium thing 🙄
Now I'm pretty certain these new orchids will not survive; already lost a miltoniopsis (though, again, I bought a marginal one but which I thought would be good enough to try). I dunno. How do you guys Assure roots are good when the orchid can't be fully examined?; my plants had good leaves and the roots that were visible.

Not sure where to start, so will give my Current growing conditions first:

Temp 72-73 day and night; have seedling heat mat for mini phals, which increases temp to 79. A/C and central fan on 24/7; heat on deep mid winter. Air blows in Front of shelf, just lightly moving Orchid leaves. High/low temp and humidity gauge shows no variation from shelf itself where orchids sit vs front or sides of area.

Humidity now at around 65%; 55-62% over heat mat; in Winter it was closer to 35-40%, so I had original orchids on humidity trays; they only made it til Feb. This batch has always had the higher humidity.

I have the orchids on the top two shelves of a plastic shelf unit with a nearby (prob about 3-4 ft)chandelier that houses 5 Full spectrum CFL bulbs (grow lights)...as well as two more that are quite further away (more like 10ft). The whole corner area where shelf is is Very bright overall with well defined shadows; need to get light meter. All of orchids, including my b.nodosum have gotten lighter leaves than when I got them. Also walls of apt are light colored and seem fairly light reflective.

I started out this second time with two mini NOID phals; debated about them as they were Literally swimming in water. Also I had pretty quickly questioned whether phals are Actually a "beginner orchid"; seems like on YouTube folks are having More issues with Phals than with Other orchids! But I thought, let me try again. My bad!

Then from same box hardware store I noticed some Seedlings: catt and brass types; got two catts and one brass.

Later I also added, from known natural food store place, a onc and a milt.

ALL the orchids, except the seedlings, were as usual Crammed with overly wet and decaying moss, which took Forever to gently peel out. The seedlings were packed in course bark, which smelled moldy (only after unpotting).

The phal roots and leaves and stem seemed pretty good and I actually only had to cut off one or two roots.
The onc and milt roots looked so so but I kept Most on unless velamen completely pulling off.
The seedlings had brown roots but looked like they were damaged by the big bark chips.

After cleaning dead roots, spraying with peroxide (now know that was bad...but have been doing til just saw that Today!&#128561

, I put them into FWC with room temp distilled water, mixed with orchid probiotics. (I got the orchids at slightly diff times but within a few days and most were next to each other in the store)
The catts and brass got put in SWC in same type water.

At first I thought all was going great with my new batch of plants...but then one catt seedling started turning really yellow with some purple edges. As it went downhill quickly, I decided to snip part of an old Pbulb. Questioned fusarium. Threw out immediately.

Other orchids cont to look ok for awhile, but then maybe Too water logged.

Decided to try semi hydro (but with hydroton vs unknown leca I'd tried with first batch of orchids). I think hydroton is Too round, like the Japanese stuff Ray describes on his site; it seemed to end up compacting too much and the top got too dry. So then I thought maybe sphagnum in a mesh pot and water when dry? Only that was too far in the Itger direction! So now I have the orchids in plastic semi hydro pots I made with roots/stems just sitting above the moss.
The pellets and moss were soaked first in distilled water with tiny drop of fert, probiotics at full strength, and superthrive.

By now I have lost the catts, the milt, and the roots on the rest. On top of that the phals have lost leaves, the stems act like stem rot and are getting molded easily. This is all almost a Repeat of what happened to my first batch and by now I'm thinking I'm so clueless and/or inept that I shouldn't even be allowed to try anymore!

But the semi hydro (with the leca that looked more irregular like aliflor, from the first batch, did the best. I actually had some new roots and growth on a completely dessicated onc; they stalled though and I accidentally broke the new growth so that was the end of that!)

I dunno. Can you guys tell me what I'm missing? Other than don't buy even partially iffy plants? Don't muck with medium changes as much, even if looks like orchid is dying? Not use peroxide and cinnamon so much and maybe use physan and inococur?

I was thinking, as you may have noticed in another thread, of buying from The Orchid House. They grow their orchids from seedling in semi hydro...which I think seemed the Best in my grow space.

Ironically, the only thing I didn't try was traditional bark mix. Mainly afraid of bugs truthfully.

Anyhoo. Any Constructive advice please. Appreciate it! Would like to not give up, but if it doesn't sound like my space is conducive then I won't keep killing orchids off!

BTW, also any specific genre you think would thrive would be helpful too.

Thanks!

jcec1 · #2 06-15-2017, 04:55 PM

First, I would buy a healthy plant, it's going to be more resilient than one that is already declining. I started with an ordinary grocery store phalaenopsis.

If you have a grocery store, or somewhere like Ikea nearby look out for a fresh delivery, and select a healthy plant that you like. If possible, try and find one potted in bark as this medium is a lot easier to deal with than moss for most beginners.

Try not to fiddle around with it much, ie spraying it, treating it with chemicals and so on.

Learn to water it at the correct time, there are threads on the site that give good guidance - incorrect watering is usually the biggest killer if orchids. If in doubt, wait a few more days for watering.

And sit back and enjoy it, orchids do better slightly neglected than constantly fussed over 😉

Your conditions were probably too warm for the miltoniopsis, phalaenopsis are in my opinion a good beginner plant - they are widely available, bred for normal indoor conditions and not expensive,
Oncidiums are also another good starter, usually requiring more frequent watering than phalaenopsis.

Good luck, and keep posting.

Also, looking at your pics I would have much smaller pots, with plenty of drainage holes, you want airflow round the plant and they are sitting too deeply in the pots you have, this will allow fungal disease to set in.

Leafmite · #3 06-15-2017, 05:21 PM

Good quality New Zealand Sphagnum moss usually will help orchids form new roots. When you do get new roots on the Brassavola Little Stars, you can carefully stake/wire it (it should not be able to move) on top of your new medium (some fast-draining/drying mix) to let the roots grow down into the medium or you can mount the orchid on some cork/wood bought at a local pet store.
As for Phals, I find they grow in nearly anything as long as the medium keeps the air around the roots humid without preventing the air from getting to the roots. The ancestors of the ones we find in box stores tend to grow bare-root on trees in warm, humid places, usually hanging sideways.
Good luck!

KokeshiHappyGreen · #4 06-15-2017, 05:57 PM

Thanks guys.

So should I just keep my current gals on top of the moss til they grow roots...or move them into bark medium and stake (as I did when they were in semi hydro)?.....
Or do you think they're already too far gone?

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 PM ----------

Oh and I usually use the Besrow ****NZ moss. Just got too rushed and used what could find at local nursery. I think not good though as is already that dark brown yuk color 🙄

If I'm gunna keep in moss then I'll order the good stuff.

But if you guys think I should move and stake into bark now...is there a particular type/brand you think would work best with my parameters? And into smallest either slatted orchid pot or home made cup with lots of holes?

And do I need the seedling mat still, at least for the phals?

Thanks

nogreenthumbs · #5 06-15-2017, 08:44 PM

I've heard that the most common cause of orchid death is too much love. I'm at least as novice as you, probably more, buy the sound of it, but I think you're over-thinking and over-doing it.

I have a cattleya alliance that has been alive and appears relatively healthy since the end of last Oct. Not only have I not killed it yet, but it's got 2 new p-bulbs that came out shortly after the blooms whithered, and it's got 2 more new p-bulbs about the size of the first knuckle of my pinky finger, and one more bump on the bottom of one of the new p-bulbs that I think is going to be another new p-bulb.

I was told to water about once a week.

I just recently repotted. I was feeding with osmocote (although, I was feeding too much). Now I have Peters cal/mag and I'm using that at a much reduced rate. I'm using clear pots so I can see the roots and media.

I think you need to step back a bit.
Check out the thread titled "Is it really still alive and not dead?!! Pics" (apparently, I have too few posts to include a link).

KokeshiHappyGreen · #6 06-15-2017, 08:55 PM

Thanks, Steve. Probably right. Tend to analyze a lot and in a quest for elusive perfection often get things wrong. Eek.

Maybe best thing would be to get a new start with a phal in bark (actually saw one last weekend) and just leave it be (after checking for bugs and bad roots, etc).

Maybe I'll just leave the older orchids as they are till they get new roots..cut the cups down some or add more air holes as suggested above.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions this far.

Leafmite · #7 06-15-2017, 09:17 PM

They all look completely salvageable. You can definitely return all of them to good health. Heat is good for encouraging roots as is a seaweed solution for plants.
Roberts Flower Supply Orchid Growing Supplies - Plants for Sale Columbia Station Ohio | Roberts Flower Supply is a good place to buy good quality potting medium and supplies. That is where I get my moss, pots and everything but the red lava rock (my favorite orchid medium).
I have had to deal with many rootless orchids in the past.
Good luck!

SaraJean · #8 06-15-2017, 10:54 PM

Less is more, less is more, less is more...
I killed quite a few when I started growing them a few years ago. I was paying way too much of the wrong type of attention to them and not letting the orchids just sit and recuperate. I got a serious lesson in the art of patience after figuring out what I was doing wrong, lol

I've had great results with putting the rootless wonders on a bed of sphagnam and kelp max, making sure they were kept warm. Just make sure they don't get moldy and sit back and wait. Start seeing new roots and stick them in a pot. Your plants really don't look too bad, it's worth a shot

fooferdoggie · #9 06-15-2017, 11:12 PM

my wife is blind so I had to find a easy way for her to deal with them. a piece of cork bark a wad of spag moss some fishing line. the orchids dry out in one two three days so less chance of over watering. its easy to feel when they are dry.
we just shaveabucket of water with light fertilizer and dip them then they feel dry. she mists them once or twice a day.

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #10 06-16-2017, 02:39 AM