Rescue Experiment: Root Rot

[jh0330u]

Originally Posted by Arizona Jeanie

Wow, you are very methodical and determined to make this work, I know you will both succeed and learn a lot about orchids! I'm not an expert, but have also been trying different approaches to get to healthy plants. Here are a few general observations and suggestions.
Ambient humidity here is very low, aerial roots tend to start then die back. If other roots are healthy, it's not a problem, my plants just don't have aerial roots. I've also noticed that aerial roots can be a last-ditch survival attempt by a plant that's lost its lower roots, and may not really be a good sign. I've tried using a humidifier (drug-store type, for croupy babies)--the plants do seem to like it, I'll set it up again this winter when the furnace is on and the windows closed. I've also used the poor man's Wardian Case--also known as a ZipLock bag--which did help along the Rootless Rescue Phal. When I got tired of looking at the plastic bag, I bought a "Wonder Bubble" which is a small plastic terrarium, although I don't seal it up tight so there's still a bit of air flow. That's working well also, I'm now trying to start a Ludisia cutting in it, looking good so far.
About root rot, I would suggest a paradigm shift. Molds and fungi are everywhere in our environment, always. Healthy roots can fend them off. Healthy roots are part of a healthy plant growing in the proper environment. Your job as Chief Plant Curator is to discover and create the environment that keeps the plant healthy, and it will fend off the root rot for itself. (There are certain corollaries here with human health!)
My opinion on Hydrogen Peroxide: it kills living cells. It doesn't know a root cell from a mold cell. Is this really what you want? I know that some people use it, but I don't think it's going to help your plants.
Can rootless plants recover? Yes, not always, and it takes a long time. You'll learn a lot about just what that proper environment is!
Keep at it, and best of luck to you!
PS, just curious--are you an engineer or scientist of some sort? You seem very thorough.

Hi! Yes, my background is in electronics engineering. Was it obvious?

I was exactly hypothesizing the exact same thing about moulds and fungi in nature! If orchids all died so easily from cases of root rot, I wouldn't think there would be very many orchids in the world!

My hypothesis is that in nature, if an orchid root grows/reaches a point in it's environment/medium that is too wet, it cannot ungrow/u-turn therefore rotting occurs. As the portion/entire affected root rots, the orchid will disconnect/distance itself from the rotting root velamen. Without someone to cut off rotting roots, I suspect this to occur up to a "joint" of a sick root (root split junctions and connection to base root). I thought this as I noticed the velamen in joints of unhealthy roots were especially very narrow in diameter, almost like sausage links. I think maybe this small gap creates enough space in between velamen to stop further spread of rot. Untouched, the orchid would then avoid growing into that area due to rotting in the future and rather grow continuously in search of environments beneficial for the plant roots.

My other/first phal which had been in bloom for at least 5 months, now has 0 roots, 2 drying edged leaves, but fascinatingly one small baby leaf that is growing in an astonishing rate! Untouched, I would think this is a possible way for the orchid to slightly move higher up in elevation and by losing it's lower leaves (and using its stored energy to grow new leaves), it would give room for new roots to grow in a higher-up/less-wet environment which is more "beneficial/suitable" for the plant.

Therefore, setting up a "beneficial/suitable" environment for the plants through choices of medium/watering must key to keeping healthy plants and roots. Removing all of the rotten/dead velamen and roots I hope will give a chance for some roots to be salvaged. However, I think that the information of rotten roots are sent up the roots to joints much faster than the actual rotting and begins to disconnect/narrow. As long as I can stop the rot though, I suspect healthy velamen below narrow joints should still absorb and provide nutrition/hydration to the plant. (According to Ref 2).

I will soon post pictures when I have enough posts.

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------

Originally Posted by bil

I have saved a few orchids, and if I am honest, I have a basic rule. I treat a sick orchid like a healthy one. If it is so far gone that that won't fix it, then it wasn't worth the bother.
Plus, look at one Catt I have saved. It was eaten alive by black mould, to the extent that I had to amputate all the leaves from the pBulbs, except half of one leaf, and then I had to cut half the pulbs off, so all that was left was a plant with 5 shrivelled pBulbs, with just half a leaf between them all.
That was some time back, two years? and it now has two or three good leaves, but it will be another year, maybe two or three before I see a flower.

It really wasn't worth the work if I am honest, other than a lesson in how bloody minded and persistent I could be.

The lessons I have learned are that it is possible to save sick orchids, it just isn't worth the trouble, unless the orchid is valuable (sentiment or money) or rare.

Personally, I think focusing on providing the best environment for your plants is key.. a happy orchid is a tough cookie, but one with suffocating roots is one sick baby.

Oh yeah, I never bother about removing dead or rotten roots. I just repot them in pure, coarse bark and water as normal.. As long as the medium is good and well ventilated they will put out new roots pronto. The problem is that if they have been left too long in a bad state, and used up too many resources, then they will die before they can put out new roots.

Hi.
I was thinking this as well. I know it may not be worth my time and effort to save these phals but for my next healthy orchid purchases, I want to be able to keep healthy plants and be able to manage rotting if it occurs.

That is very interesting that you dont bother removing dead/rotten roots! So during repotting, do you just plant everything, dead roots and all, into the coarse bark?

My goal is to be able to have 3-4 nice healthy phals which can provide me beautiful blooms year-round, every year.

[bil]

Originally Posted by jh0330u

Hi.
I was thinking this as well. I know it may not be worth my time and effort to save these phals but for my next healthy orchid purchases, I want to be able to keep healthy plants and be able to manage rotting if it occurs.

That is very interesting that you dont bother removing dead/rotten roots! So during repotting, do you just plant everything, dead roots and all, into the coarse bark?

My goal is to be able to have 3-4 nice healthy phals which can provide me beautiful blooms year-round, every year.

Yup. As soon as I get a new orchid home, I repot, even if they don't need it. I want a look at the roots et al, and tbh most times had I not repotted the orchid would have shortly been circling the drain.

I never cut off roots. They provide stability and there is the possibility that they will still wick water to the plant.

"I want to be able to keep healthy plants and be able to manage rotting if it occurs."
If you are doing the first, you are unlikely to have to worry about the second. That's not arrogance, but a simple observation. If they get too hot or cold, andd the crown starts to rot, trust me on this, BIN THEM.

If you put them in moss, and the roots start to rot, then frankly, the cure is, pot them up in coarse bark ONLY and treat them as if they are healthy. From this of course, the obvious deduction is, pot them in bark AT THE START, and then your only problem is underwatering. That can make the leaves go floppy. Then all I do again, is water them as if they were healthy (ie water them more than you were.) Here in High Summer, I water 3 times a week, and in winter, once a week.
In summer they get 25ppm of nitrogen every watering, and winter when it is x1 a week, they get 75ppm.

"My goal is to be able to have 3-4 nice healthy phals which can provide me beautiful blooms year-round, every year."

Nope. What happens with the common phals is that they all synchronise. Mine are starting to throw flower spikes, and once they start flowering, I will have flowers on some of them till September.

One suggestion is, look at the minature phals. I have a white one that was flowering almost all year.

I'll attach a pic of the big and the small white one to show what sort of pot sizes I use. The minature phals are potted in fine bark btw.