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  #1  
Old 11-16-2014, 03:50 PM
Polarizeme Polarizeme is offline
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Default Hybrid Orchid registration and clonal names

I have a few orchid hybrid plants called Cheryl Shohan. One is "Red Hot Mama" this is an AM/AOS awarded clone. There is another in my greenhouse called "The Babe" There is no award associated with this clonal name, at least I can't find it anywhere.

Now, am I using the terminology correctly? The hybrid registered name is "Cheryl Shohan"
So, how do we end up with different epitaths? I am assuming this hybrid was recreated at some point and then shown under the name Red Hot Mama?

I'm not very familiar with how all this works in the AOS and how plants are awarded "clones" of the "same" hybrid.

Enlighten me o Board of Orchid Lovers
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2014, 04:11 PM
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tucker85 tucker85 is offline
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When two orchids are crossed, to produce a new hybrid, there can sometimes be hundreds of seedlings produced. Even though they come from the same seed pod, there can be a wide variety of different looking flowers produced. Just like a cat can have different colored kittens in the same litter, sometimes orchids from the same seed pod look very different from one another. They will all have the same hybrid name though. When the breeder, or someone who has purchased one of the plants, takes it in for judging and wins an award, the plant's owner picks a clonal name to follow the name of the cross. Some crosses can produce several award winning orchids. Each will have a different clonal name and may look very different or can look similar to the others. When one of those orchids is mericloned, to produce clones for sale, it will carry the hybrid name and the clonal name of the actual plant that the cloned material came from. Sometimes you'll find a hybrid that was nice enough to mariclone but was never given a clonal name and only carries the hybrid name. I also believe it's possible to give an orchid a clonal name when you mericlone it, even if it was never awarded. In any case, a clonal name always indicates that your plant came from the actual plant that was given that clonal name. I hope I didn't confuse you even more.

Last edited by tucker85; 11-16-2014 at 04:19 PM..
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2014, 04:20 PM
Polarizeme Polarizeme is offline
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This is what I thought. The breeder chose to give the plants clonal names, the best of the best as it were. I have not found "The Babe" as an award winner in Orchid Wiz or Orchids Plus. So is it safe to assume that this hybrid with the clonal name "The Babe" hasn't been awarded? Can I take this plant to a judging center? Or is this not good form?
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Old 11-16-2014, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarizeme View Post
This is what I thought. The breeder chose to give the plants clonal names, the best of the best as it were. I have not found "The Babe" as an award winner in Orchid Wiz or Orchids Plus. So is it safe to assume that this hybrid with the clonal name "The Babe" hasn't been awarded? Can I take this plant to a judging center? Or is this not good form?
You can take any orchid in for judging, as long as you know the name of the plant. If it already has an award and a clonal name, they'll judge it against the number of points the original awarded plant received. If your plant gets a higher number of points, it will receive a new award but will still retain the original clonal name. The clonal name never changes and nothing is added to it. If your plant has no award or clonal name then you would be allowed to pick a name if you get an award.
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:19 PM
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In a way, clonal names are kind of like nicknames. In the world of novelty Phalaenopsis, were not a lot of awards (mostly due to judge impartiality towards them, which is another topic completely) are won, we usually rely on these clonal names. They're not official, but they are very handy in keeping track of specific clones of the more popular hybrids or species.
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:28 PM
RJSquirrel RJSquirrel is offline
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and you can have the same progeny create many many many different awards (or none) the plants that are seed generated can be widely variable...

for instance lehua has 1 masdy with the same parents with 14 different clonal names bec each flower of the different plants stood on its own merit.

after each was named it was able to be identified and separated from the other plants with the same genetics and make up....

if its a named clone or meristem it will not change....

I should have done this to start with...
Orchid names..
http://www.aos.org/Default.aspx?id=401

Last edited by RJSquirrel; 11-16-2014 at 11:40 PM..
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:05 AM
Polarizeme Polarizeme is offline
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Thank you all for the responses and great information! I think I understand now. I guess my confusion was the named non awarded clone. I have seen many hybrids with clonal names that were indeed awarded. I have seen siblings from the same cross that look very different. Redshine "Sheila" and Redshine "#1" are siblings but look very different in color and texture.

I guess I should have considered that cross (redshine) and applied the same concept to the Cheryl Shohan sibling pair I have.

I'll have to get some pictures of "The Babe" as it continues to bloom. The flowers are amazingly red and the shape is beautiful.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:09 AM
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Orchid Whisperer Orchid Whisperer is offline
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I think the clonal names are more official than nicknames. It is more like the "given name" assigned to siblings born to the same parents.
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Old 11-17-2014, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer View Post
I think the clonal names are more official than nicknames. It is more like the "given name" assigned to siblings born to the same parents.
Clonal names are not registered in any way, unless the plant earns an AOS award. I often buy multiple plants of the same cross, and I need some way of remembering which plant (flower) had what features. I use numbers on some, but clonal names on the better ones.

There is an unofficial etiquette, that you should not change another growers clonal names, but even that does happen. Sometimes even the original clonal name giver changes it (if you can't get it awarded under one clonal name, you give it another and try again).

I have recently suggested to the AOS, that an internet register be established for clonal names, with some modest fee attached ($5-10 seems reasonable). No word on this proposal yet.
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Old 11-17-2014, 08:06 AM
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I guess where the debate over how "official" they are is based upon a misunderstanding of their registration status.

Technically, the hybrid name is called the grex. In the original post, that's Cheryl Sohan. The grex name is registered with the International Orchid Registrar in England.

The clonal name, technically the "cultivar (cultivated variety) epithet", is, as has been so well explained above, attached to a grex having unique characteristics. Anyone may attach a cultivar epithet to any plant that does not have one (some change them, too, but that is unethical).

When a plant is awarded, the awarding bodies require that one be attached to the plant, but that name is "recorded" with the award, not registered, as grex names are.

OW, I think your analogy is OK, but misses the point a bit. It would fit better if children were named "Child" on the birth certificate, with their first names attached in single quotes. "Hi, I'm Child Barkalow 'Ray'"
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