Onc. Heaven scent - wrinkling, rotting spikes, the whole 9!

[james mickelso]

Oncidiums don't like to be "wet". Unless you have since repotted it in a very loose spag, from what I see, there is still a lot of 'soil' looking material on the inside of the rootball. This would be your problem unless you have gotten rid of it. What you think is wrong with your oncidium is just the natural aging of the spent pbulbs and not something wrong with the plant. Ok....oncidiums don't like to be repotted unless there is new growth with new roots. Period. You mess with them at the wrong stage of their growth and what you have happening to yours is what always happens. I would cut off the spikes. They are being supported by the pbulbs and that is why they are wrinkling. Here is how oncidiums grow. The matured pbulb puts out an inflorescent which flowers and then dies off. They rest awhile and then put out new growth. These new growths grow quite a bit and feed off the matured pbulbs before they start growing roots of their own. This is when you repot an oncidium. Unless you can provide a perfect environment for the plant, the pbulbs will start to wrinkle once it has either flowered or put out new growth. I would cut the flower spike, very carefully repot into a much drier media be that very loose spag, large bark with a thin layer of spag on top to help maintain an evenly damp (not wet) environment throughout the pot, or coconut husk media. And give the plant some good air circulation to help keep the moisture even. I would go so far as to wash out the remaining old media and then lay the roots in the pot and very carefully fill with your new media. If you don't want to try to repot it then the next best thing to do is to get some good air circulation around it. But from the picture of the bottom of the roots, this media will eventually kill the plant. Here are some pics of oncidium growth. The longer you keep the flower spikes the longer it will be before the plant puts on new growth. The new growth is all that matters right now. Pbulbs can wrinkle to the point where most folks think to throw the plant away. New growth can come from almost completely desicated pbulbs. Don't worry about the wrinkling. It is natural. In these pictures you notice how wrinkled some of the older pbulbs have gotten. All have since put on all sorts of new growth and flowered. Don't let wrinkled pbulbs distress you. The new growth which will come during spring when it gets warmer and there is more sunlight is what is important. Patience grasshopper. The most important thing you can do for your plant is to get it to dry fast and not let it stay too damp for very long. The old pbulbs aren't storing energy anymore for flowers. Once the new growth starts their sole purpose is the send energy to the new growth. You'll also notice how coarse the media is in some of the pots. People worry too much about keeping their plants 'watered'. Let them dry out just like they would in their natural environment. Also notice how old the new growth is before it puts out new roots. More than half-way to maturity.

[NYCorchidman]

Wrinkles are due to lack of water at one point or another, and it is not actually normal.
Some oncidium types will plump up their pb upon good watering, but many do not. So once you get wrinkles, you live with them. Once watering is corrected, wrinkles do not harm the plant, but it is not normal.
Certain intergenerics that are less heat tolerant will wrinkle up even with good watering as plants lose more water than they can take up. This is called heat stress.
Many oncidium types that are sold at stores or nurseries, I don't ever see any wrinkled pbs.
Most of mine are wrinkle free, even the oldest tiny pbs.
The ones with wrinkles (that I have) are the ones with root damage ( not enough water taken up) or heat stress (more cool growing types that I have hard time with).

By the way, have you felt your oncidium's roots? Are they firm or soft?
If soft, then they are gone bad even if they may look good.
I really have no clue as to how to save your plant at this point other than guessing that you are probably seeing the result of bad roots not being able to take up enough water.
You mentioned that the moss was wet when you bought. Then it has stayed that way (you watering the plant even when the moss was still wet...)
I can't think of anything else.

Lower temperature is not an issue unless it is really low like below 55 or 40. 69 during the day is perfectly fine. plus lower temp has nothing to do with wrinkles. too high temp can though.

Switching it to s/h is not a good idea at this point. Just like repotting, switching plants to s/h is best done when plants are pushing new shoots and roots. The likelihood of success is higher that way.

[aleksanne]

I believe the roots are fine - White and plump. Im attaching a picture of them durring the repotting. Its not the best picture (still has old potting crud on it) but I think it gives an idea.

Let me clarify the repotting/watering: The Onc was bought potted in the peat mix, straight off the delivery truck well-watered. I did not water it for about 2 weeks because the peat was retaining moisture extremely well. At the 2 week mark, I noticed light wrinkling of the largest bulb. The peat was still extremely moist so I waited another 2 or 3 days before I watered it. The medium was still rather wet, but I had no other idea why the PB's would start shriveling.

1 week after watering, the bulb continued to shrivel. This time, I assumed all the wrinkles were because of too much moisture. I repotted it to dry it out but Wrinkling became twice as bad. I went into panic mode and started drenching the thing like a fool.

Im rather unclear with my words sometimes, Im sorry.

Would you advise one last repotting into something more airy, or let it be in what its currently in, making sure it dries out well between watering?

[Ordphien]

No matter the watering schedule every oncidium I buy spends the first few in my home wrinkling their pseudobulbs.
New growth looks normal happy and healthy though so I can only assume going from the greenhouse to my home was hard on the old one... pampered things these orchids lol.

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[james mickelso]

Having grown oncids and their relatives for 20+ years in all types of environments, all I can say is that unless they have a very good environment, the pbulbs wrinkle especially after flowering. They need the correct temperatures along with very good watering practices. For anything less the pbuulbs wrinkle. All energies are put into first, flowering and then putting on new growths. Yes I have had some that stay wrinkle free for a few seasons but that was when I had a good greenhouse. Even the smallest backbulbs stayed plump. But as you can see from the pics, even here at the beach in 40-60% humidity nearly year round and temps normally in the 60-80*f range and constant attention to detail, the pbulbs wrinkled. When potted in a less airy media they started to decline after a few years. Your environment must be fairly even as you say yours never wrinkle. What type media do you use for your oncidium types? Temps and air movement? Pics would be great.

[mattryan]

The wrinkling on your pbulbs is a non starter..I think you are looking for problems where there isn't any. I'd love to see pics of NYOrchidman's pbulbs too as I've never seen an onc without any shrivelling of a pbulb or 2. The rot that is on the pbulb is what I'd be more worried about. Also the mix that you previously had it in wasn't peat as we already pointed out to you on a previous post. Several other members have the same orchid and ours as many other oncs are potted in the same mix. If you keep unpotting the poor orchid it will die. Pot it up and leave it. Oncs don't like to be messed with alot, phals don't mind too much. The bark was completely fine. I live more north than you do and all my Oncs are in bark/perlite mix. Put a wooden skewer in mix and don't water again til almost dry. Maybe in florida you can get away with keeping oncs wet...not up here with our dark/short winter days. I'd say get that poor orchid out of that sphag...stays way to wet. Goodluck if you keep unpotting that orchid you will need it!


Cheryl

[NYCorchidman]

Originally Posted by aleksanne

I believe the roots are fine - White and plump. Im attaching a picture of them durring the repotting. Its not the best picture (still has old potting crud on it) but I think it gives an idea.

Let me clarify the repotting/watering: The Onc was bought potted in the peat mix, straight off the delivery truck well-watered. I did not water it for about 2 weeks because the peat was retaining moisture extremely well. At the 2 week mark, I noticed light wrinkling of the largest bulb. The peat was still extremely moist so I waited another 2 or 3 days before I watered it. The medium was still rather wet, but I had no other idea why the PB's would start shriveling.

1 week after watering, the bulb continued to shrivel. This time, I assumed all the wrinkles were because of too much moisture. I repotted it to dry it out but Wrinkling became twice as bad. I went into panic mode and started drenching the thing like a fool.

Im rather unclear with my words sometimes, Im sorry.

Would you advise one last repotting into something more airy, or let it be in what its currently in, making sure it dries out well between watering?

Thank you for the close-up picture, which helps a lot. The roots, as you say, do look fine. Also, I don't think I see any wrinkles on those pbs, at least not the ones shown in the picture. so I'm rather puzzled here.

The description you gave also puzzles me. Media not being dry for over two weeks...then you watered it when the media was still rather wet.

Let me share with you what I do as far as watering in concerned with the oncidium intergenerics that come in green plastic pot with dark peat like mix.
Unless the pot feels very light or look ver dry, I wait until I see very slight wrinkles to appear on pbs. This usually means the mix has been dry and the plant is getting dehydrated (therefore it is using its own water reserve from its "water tank"). The pot feels quite light when this happens.
Then I take the pot to the kitchen sink and give good watering. I water again when I lift the pot and feel it is light again. This depends on the season and weather, but usually once or twice, even three times a week.

Wrinkles on pbs as mentioned by many, as long as it is not severe and your watering practice is decent, should not worry you too much.

Last, when you repot orchids (not just oncidiums) from moist mix to much more airy one, drying up usually follow, unless it is s/h or you do really really good job misting or keeping up with high humidity, which most people with jobs cannot do. so gradually change rather than extreme&sudden change is recommended.

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[aleksanne]

The root picture only truly shows the bruised PB, and a baby PB. The wrinkled one can be seen in pictures 2 & 4 on the 1st thread post - Its the large one. The 2nd largest bulb is showing signs but its not as bad right now.

I realize my mistakes now and thank everyone for the help, patience, and all the tips.

[NYCorchidman]

As already mentioned in my previous post, some (usually the ones with damaged roots or ones that need "cooler" environment) tend to wrinkle easily at typical dry home environment, especially during hot season.
Some oncidiums plump back up once watering is corrected while some never recover (although this doesn't harm plants much as long as good watering is practiced).

Now, as much as I love oncidiums/intergenerics for their large sprays of colorful flowers and ease of growth, many of them have leaf spots issues (whether those are real issues or just physiological) and it bothers me so much that I no longer keep many oncidium types at all and I plan to chuck them all out eventually.

I do have three that I'm posting pictures of as requested by some. Pleast note that these have been with me for over one year, so it's not from a store yesterday. lol
The genera in the order of pictures posted, Odontocidium, Oncidium, Beallara. (I know some names may have changed, but I go by what the tag says for convenience)

As you can see, every single pbs even the oldest tiny back pbs are plump. Two of these are planted in fine grade coconut (almost like peat) with perlite and the other one (the first pic) is in fine grade bark covered with moss on top to prevent drying out too much.
The one in the first pic wrinkles a little bit in the summer when I forget to water, but upon watering it plumps up again. I like it when it does that!
I personally never use bark as potting mix for oncidium. It dries out too much for typical home culture in my opinion. This plant came in bark and I just haven't repotted it yet. I do not repot unless I absolutely have to. so I definitely agree with Cheryl saying not to mess with the plant. I just don't like to disturb plants too much and disturbed is exactly what you see when you mess with the roots unnecessarily.

My growing area is my apartment. I don't have any fancy measuring machine or device around, but it's quite dry and hot during the day. South facing, very bright.
I mist everything everyday, sometimes multiple times a day when possible, especially in the summer time.
I would say, humidity is around 40%-70% depending on the season. I do use humidifier in the winter because I suffer when indoor air gets too dry.
Temperature swings between 100-70 (that's day high and night low for summer) and 80-60 for the winter.

Again, a little wrinkle here and there do not harm the plants. They will still grow and flower. It is not normal though as it is an indication of dehydration.
I have never seen oncidium types at nurseries or stores with wrinkles on their pbs. That's because they were grown in nearly ideal conditions.

While my apartment is no where ideal, I am rather anal about watering my oncidiums (and other plants also) and take great care, hence, no wrinkles.
I did have wrinkles on "cooler" growing types and ones I tried in bark mix in the past.

[Ordphien]

Only my two mini oncidiums don't have any wrinkles. They plump right back up when watered...
Oh actually.... it's still fairly new but so far my smaller sharry baby wanna be has remained plump.. and plumps back up when watered...
My brassia looks like a raisin...

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