Viruses and orchid collections

[SJF]

Originally Posted by escualida

It remains to be seen, when I filed the dispute they had "temporarily" given me a refund, and then when the Pine Ridge guy sent his response they took it away again. I then had to send a letter with my reasons for wanting the refund along with proof from Critter Creek that they were in fact virused, the email exchange I had with Pine Ridge, and the articles I found on viruses and sent that in a few days ago. I haven't heard back but if they don't find in my favor I'm going to freak out and cancel all my cards with that company.

I hope it works out. I am sorry to hear about your frustration.

I am going through a CC dispute now too. I had an order mis-delivered by Fedex to the wrong person. The recipient later left the box (which was marked live plants do not expose to extreme temperatures) on the curb by my mailbox and it sat in freezing temperatures for hours (needless to say it was a complete loss).

I called Fedex right away and they had me file a claim. They were very apologetic. The claim forms had my name on them, I submitted them and provided all the pictures. I let the company know that I filed the claim and gave them the claim number. I also let them know that Fedex said they will pay them (including refunded S&H) and that they then need to refund my CC.

The way a Fedex claim works is that they refund the vendor and then they refund you. Fedex refunded the vendor and not only did the vendor not even let me know that they had been paid on my claim, but they refuse to credit me. Fedex provided me with the date and time that they paid this company my claim. If I hadn't contacted Fedex I wouldn't have known it was complete. They told me that the plants were theirs so they keep the money. What???!!! I had the almost three hundred dollar charge on my CC that needed to be paid. We paid the bill and the CC company temporarily refunded it until the investigation is complete. Thank God I kept all of my sent and received e-mails and pictures. Which reminds me...I need to log on to Facebook and "unlike" them. GRR

[escualida]

Originally Posted by SJF

I hope it works out. I am sorry to hear about your frustration.

I am going through a CC dispute now too. I had an order mis-delivered by Fedex to the wrong person. The recipient later left the box (which was marked live plants do not expose to extreme temperatures) on the curb by my mailbox and it sat in freezing temperatures for hours (needless to say it was a complete loss).

I called Fedex right away and they had me file a claim. They were very apologetic. The claim forms had my name on them, I submitted them and provided all the pictures. I let the company know that I filed the claim and gave them the claim number. I also let them know that Fedex said they will pay them (including refunded S&H) and that they then need to refund my CC.

The way a Fedex claim works is that they refund the vendor and then they refund you. Fedex refunded the vendor and not only did the vendor not even let me know that they had been paid on my claim, but they refuse to credit me. Fedex provided me with the date and time that they paid this company my claim. If I hadn't contacted Fedex I wouldn't have known it was complete. They told me that the plants were theirs so they keep the money. What???!!! I had the almost three hundred dollar charge on my CC that needed to be paid. We paid the bill and the CC company temporarily refunded it until the investigation is complete. Thank God I kept all of my sent and received e-mails and pictures. Which reminds me...I need to log on to Facebook and "unlike" them. GRR

OMG that is awful! May I ask who the vendor was? I want to avoid them at all costs.

[NYCorchidman]

I've read the same thing although I do not remember which virus, but it is possible to produce vire free plants from phals that are infected with certain virus.

Deflasking, transplanting and other routine care in the nursery all expose many plants for possible infection though unfortunately.

Speaking of virus, looking at some odd stuff on some of my plants starts to freak me out again.

[D_novice]

I am curious if anyone has anything to add to this thread. Apparently, four years ago people felt virus-infected plants didn't need to be discarded automatically, for a hobbyist collection, if they're not showing signs of decline.

I bought test kits and, lo and behold, 3 trader joe's intergeneric oncidiums were CymMV positive (Agdia kit test) and 1 IG Onc from a plant reseller in HI (I can't tell they're just taking seedlings and growing them up to bloom size) who sells on eBay was ORSV positive.

All three plants had beautiful blooms, nothing wrong whatsoever, and the plants seem healthy enough. Well, considering what you get at Trader Joe's!

My thought was to keep them, try not to mix them with my other plants (would have been better if I'd known their viral status six months ago!!), and when they bloom, give as gifts to non-hobbyists who will throw them out after they bloom, anyway.

Anyone think I'm insane for that? I have ~125 orchids, a few Onc alliance, about 30 Cyms that live outdoors, and then a variety of others. Nothing else I've tested - including Onc's from that same HI reseller - came out positive.

And, I won't be buying plants at TJ's anymore, even though their IG Onc's are sometimes so nice looking.

[Fairorchids]

This is a very difficult subject.

I know two Cattleya fanatics. They both keep certain valuable and/or historic clones, even though they are known to be virused. However, they keep those plants carefully separated from the rest of their collections.

Phalaenopsis from Taiwan are grown by 4-5 nurseries:

• Breeder
• Meristem propagator
• Compot grower
• Meristem to mature plant grower
• US finishing nursery

If any one of them does not maintain proper cleanliness, plants are likely to be infected.

Buying from US sources (not box stores) reduces the risk, but it does not eliminate it entirely. I have been sorely disappointed by plants from several respected sources.

[Ray]

I guess one aspect of the "keep or don't" discussion is how well they can be isolated from other plants.

You have to consider the potential vectors of virus transmission - physical contact, water splashing, insects, & you, for example.

[ryrycochinco]

This thread is freaking me out! haha I have a phal from trader joe's which I bought solely because of it's bizarre flowers. They're like a tie dye of burgundy and white with a velvet sheen. Only now do I realize these characteristics are probably evidence of a virus. Anyway, the plant has always been a reliable grower and I love the blooms. Viruses aren't something to be afraid of unless they're obviously hurting the plant. I simply don't have the heart to put a living plant in the trash. I'd rather it died in my care. The majority of the world population has type one herpes. We wouldn't compare the herpes virus to say, HIV. I think we should be more prejudice to what viruses are worth fearing and testing for, although if a virus were so detrimental, we'd probably see symptoms in the plant prior to testing anyway. I'd just use hygienic practices while handling my collection, and let nature take it's course as usual. My only question is: can a virus which is benign in one plant be fatal to another?

Side note - In class today we discussed how the mitochondrias were once parasitic prokaryotes which invaded animal cells and over millions of years the relationship changed and is now obviously a vital organelle in eukaryotic cells. Very loosely related but just a reminder that in biology everything is case specific and it isn't easy to deem things definitively good
or bad.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by ryrycochinco

I'd just use hygienic practices while handling my collection, and let nature take it's course as usual. My only question is: can a virus which is benign in one plant be fatal to another?

A plant with virus that seems to be ignoring it can indeed spread disease to another plant. However, if you use good hygiene when handling all plants, you greatly reduce the odds. Since you can't tell by looking at a plant or its flowers, just assume that it could be, and handle accordingly. A classic example of an orchid that is nearly always virused (because the source FCC/AOS plant was) is Cattleya Porcia 'Cannizaro'. This thing is a blooming machine, grows like a weed. No color break on the flowers. Since it's a known "carrier" I just keep it isolated (fortunately, I can grow it outside) It happily lives out in the "back 40" and blooms its head off (right now, 4 spikes, each with a big head of flowers) I am certainly not going to dispose of it!

If you have a crowded greenhouse (where plants share the air and the bugs) it may be more of an issue. But if you can give a suspect plant a bit of space, enjoy.

[D_novice]

I have no idea if Harpin proteins would help but I doubt they would hurt. Of course, they don't take the place of sterile technique, isolation, quarantine, keeping plants in the conditions they need and want, and all the basics. And I doubt they would get rid of a virus that was decently established in the plant.

It does, however, seem possible that treating healthy plants with them would increase their resistance to infection (as would proper care and feeding, of course).

Also, the fact that I had infected plants touching other plants for months, and no other plant tests positive, seems to at least suggest that this isn't like catching a cold from a classroom of 1st graders.

And those virus-positive plants from TJ's, I got a positive titer in seconds! They have plenty of virus in them, according to the test.