tetraspis question

[Rowangreen]

Bit vague on this (I think everyone is...) but as I understand it the absolute definite tetraspis has mainly white flowers with occasional, random, bars of colour. (I have one, it's first flowers were all white, but it has some pink on the lip (unlike the alba) so the seller believes it will be marked when it flowers again in warmer weather)

The 'other end of the scale', which I think some see as a different species, some as a variety (?), is speciosa, which has petals and sepals either fully white or fully red at random (as the plant shown). I think I've also heard that some people believe the true, original speciosa is extinct.

The plant commonly called tetraspis c1 is of unknown origin. Some believe it's a cross between the two (some arguments there about lip shape I think). I think some believe it is speciosa. Or maybe a natural intermediate form... whatever.

LOL!

I read somewhere about lower temps causing less red. My plant on the picture earlier in this thread was blooming in the summer and has lots of red.
Here is the link to TheBlazingAugust blog where you can see the same plant blooming differently in January(top article) vs. summer(scroll down to the last article):
Orchids in a Closet: Phalaenopsis speciosa v. christiana
I think he got his plant from Patrick too.

[mattryan]

Thanks so much for the links. I've gotten an order coming for a heiroglyphica and I am awaiting further explanation of the tetraspis on order from crystal star. If it doesn't pan out I'll see what Ten Shin has to offer and pick up at the show here. I am awaiting a reply from them also. Thanks for the advice on a discount, never would have occured to me. I have a question, do most vendors bring orchids to the show for purchase or are most pre-ordered for sale? Thanks again.

Cheryl

As far as I know they do both. They bring some stock to the show to have plants on the tables for people to purchase. But they also bring pre-ordered reserved plants for people to pick up at the show. Pre-ordering is good to make sure you get the plant that you want, vendor will definitely bring it and it will be reserved and waiting for you there, so nobody can snap it from the table right in front of you.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Ok, so I didn't read through everyone else response, but I am going to give my own opinion on this. I do realize that there is a lot of controversy over the taxonomy of this, but I realize that true taxonomy and orchid hobbyists rarely perfectly mix, so I am going to give the hobbyists side of this. A true tetraspis var. alba should NOT have any bars or spots, and the lip usually has little purple along the length. A normal tetraspis has small spots and bars which can be somewhat irregular (which may be due to interbreeding with speciosa).

Now, when it comes to tetraspis 'C#1', speciosa, and speciosa var. christiana, the taxonomy gets ugly. Personally, I think these three can be considered the same, and I put them under the name of speciosa. Ignoring the whole taxonomy debate behind this, the reason I put speciosa alone as a species is rather simple. Florally, the pigmentation mechanisms are distinct from tetraspis. Depending on the conditions, you can get completely white flowers, or nearly solid red flowers, although most of the time they have red blotches of varying size and distribution. tetraspis also shows variation with temperature and light, but it never has more than simple spots and bars.

I really find the breeding characteristics of speciosa to be interesting, and that is why I am so adamant in keeping it separate, especially when coming to registering hybrids made with it. When bred with something like violacea or something that has lots of violacea in it, such as Purple Martin (Kenneth Schubert x violacea), speciosa carries on its characteristic of random colour splotches. Jennifer Palermo (tetraspis x violacea) will have a solid background, but it will have distinct bars over the flower from tetraspis. A true Germain Vincent (violacea x speciosa), on the other hand, will look like speciosa in a way, except what was white on speciosa is now a saturated purple, with the splotches being even more saturated. When bred to barred species such as amboinensis or lueddemanniana, I don't think speciosa will solidify anything, but it will provide slight randomness, whereas tetraspis will usually reduce the amount of spots. When bred to equestris, it produces fine spots. In general, tetraspis, appears to breed like an amboinensis, just contributing less of a solid spotting pattern.

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 PM ----------

Originally Posted by orchideya

This is what I consider a speciosa.

[quiltergal]

The first C#1 I had bloomed for the first time in the dead of winter and the flowers were pure white. It bloomed again in the heat of summer and that blooming produced the random red botching. So I believe the blotching is temperature dependent. Alas that first plant succumbed to whatever disease was running rampant through my Phals at the time. I have since replaced it with one from Big Leaf that is supposed to have better color.

I should also say that they bloom on very small plants so if you buy a seedling you may not have to wait as long as you think for blooms.

Have fun at the show!

[orchidsarefun]

Quiltergal -
are your winter/summer growing temps that different ?

[zxyqu]

Temperature (and probably light levels to some degree), play an important part in the level of red blotches in most speciosa flowers. I will say getting back to the original question. A reputable seller providing a tetraspis C#1 or speciosa for sale, likely is selling a plant with large red blotching, not the alba or randomly stripping more common to tetraspis. If you have the opportunity to buy a stem from kingfisher, then you know what you're going to get, as it is an exact clone, for the sake of this argument, of the original flower. There you know what it's going to look like. However, if you buy from eBay, for on the cheap, and from a lesser than reputable seller, you'll likely get the short end of the stick. It's easy to pawn off a plant year(s) from blooming as something its not.
I also will not touch the speciosa vs tetraspis debate, as it's more a wall of text (see Cody's comment above), than it really needs to be, indicating a level of complexity and opinions which are ridiculous but important.

Hope that helped.

[quiltergal]

We have four very distinct seasons here. A few days ago our high temp was 32 F. During the summer it can be well over 100F for days on end. Mine are growing under lights so that variable remains pretty constant for me.

[mattryan]

Thank You everyone for your replies. I had never even heard of kingfisher before I posted my question. It is middle of winter here so I'm not sure that I could get a tetraspis through them this time of year as they are in B.C. and I am in Ont. I am awaiting a couple of emails and going to the orchid show and if I can't get what I am after I will definitely contact them. I just don't want to end up having to purchase 3 tetraspis' because I couldn't wait. I thank every one's help, it's hard to find some orchids up here and I appreciate every one's help. Many thanks !

Cheryl