Breeding credentials - Orchid Board

Kelo · #1 06-07-2011, 11:23 AM

When breeding one orchid with another what does the male+female plant contribute to the finished flower? Which one decides the colour, size or shape? Both? Are there a lot of sterile crosses out there, too?

RosieC · #2 06-07-2011, 03:54 PM

I don't think it's something that can be predicted. Both can contributes to all features of the plant, just like with people. This is why any seed cross could have a lot of variation in the results and why clones are desirable as the best results of seed crosses can then be reproduced exactly.

You can't even reproduce a plant exactly if you do a seed cross of two identical plants (even crossing two identical clones) the result will be a different mix of the parents features and while likely to be similar will not be genetically identical and could look different.

I think there are a lot of sterile crosses out there. There is something about crossing 3N and 4N chromosome plants, produces sterile crosses. I really don't understand that at all, but I've heard a lot of the NoID hybrids are crossed with no consideration of this and so can often be sterile.

Kelo · #3 06-07-2011, 04:23 PM

OK, thank you Rosie. I just wondered if there was a way of breeding, broadly speaking, a certain colour or shape. Makes me wonder how they manage to cross plants to produce certain colours and why there aren't so many duds out there - maybe there are though? There must be stacks of plants out there that haven't been used to clone etc..

RosieC · #4 06-07-2011, 04:34 PM

I think there are plenty of 'duds' from crossing. But many times once a cross has been made a good example of the result is then cloned and it's those clones we buy, or crosses of the already made hybrid (which will have some variation but less than crossing the original parents). Sometimes something is listed as a 'remake' of a cross which means they've gone back to the original parents again, but from what I've learnt that is less common that I first expected.

Kelo · #5 06-07-2011, 04:40 PM

I've seen a few 'remakes' and wonder what the chances are of finding the exact same flower that was originally produced. I'll leave it to the experts I think lol. Thanks again, Rosie.

Ray · #6 06-07-2011, 04:49 PM

I'm no expert in that area at all, but my understanding is that the mitochondrial DNA in the "female" parent plays a bigger role than the pollen parent in color and form.

Kelo · #7 06-07-2011, 04:57 PM

For some strange reason I thought that the male part of the fertilization was to produce size, shape colour while the female part of the deal was to give numbers of flowers, colour or even the size of the plant. I think I shouldn't have smoked that green stuff I found LMAO. JOKING!!!!

Royal · #8 06-07-2011, 05:42 PM

Some crosses are purely speculative, but some will produce predictable results. Getting specific is tough, but we know how some traits are passed on. Using Rosie's human analogy, we wouldn't be able to do a sketch of a person's face before they where born, but we could predict hair color because we know how that trait is inherited. We couldn't predict exact height, but we could guess that two tall parent will have a tall child. Similarly, we know how certain plants breed and what traits prevail in their offspring. We know crossing a big white phal with a harlequin will probably give us more harlequins. We know that yellow doesn't get passed on as effectively (or reliably) via the pollen parent. We know B. nodosa dilutes color and it's shape dominates. We know using P. venosa lowers flower count and P. equestris increases it. etc, etc. It's not cut and dry, but it's not a total guessing game either. A little research goes a long way.

Kelo · #9 06-07-2011, 06:00 PM

Thank you for that. I had considered that it had taken years of experience even if some guess work was involved. It felt too 'easy' if there were totally predictable paths. It still escapes me when I see two phals, for example, that are crossed and that the expected progeny will be fantastic hence the reason that I don't like buying 'experiments'.

quiltergal · #10 06-08-2011, 02:40 AM

I have read the same thing Ray mentioned that the pod parent will play a larger role in what the plant looks like than the pollen parent.

As Jerry mentions there are certain colors/shapes/scents that are either dominant or recessive genes.

But it all really is still a roll of the dice. I have to tell you I visited Carmela Orchids a few years ago on the Big Island of Hawaii, and they had a HUGE compost pile. Crosses that bloomed out and did not turn out as desired got tossed on the heap. I guess from their point of view they don't want an ugly plant circulating around out their with their name on it.