Really poor roots on my favorite Phal - Orchid Board

RosieC · #1 08-16-2008, 12:34 PM

I've had this phal for three years and it was doing really well. I re-potted it in April and it had a good root system then. In July you guys gave me advice because it had got overdry while I was way and 5 of the 9 leaves had shrivelled (and finally turned yellow and dropped off).

Now I've looked at the roots and I'm really upset to find there are far less than I remember and most of them are brown and hollow (although not mushy).

Does this mean they have rotted?

I didn't think I had overwatered it, I've always alowed it to dry thoroughly between watering. I'm not sure now if it got over dry while I was away because of an already poor root system, rather than just the new bark drying out quickly.

It still has SOME good roots under the soil but not many and they are quite short.

So I've got to cut off the dead roots right?
I have cinnamon to dust any cuts, is that right? I've only used that on the end of a cut spike before.

There are a few roots which looks healthy at the top and healthy at the bottom, but with black patchs in the middle. Should I cut them off just above the black, I don't like to waste the good bit at the bottom but fear I may need to. Unfortunately that would leave me with only short little bits of root under the soil.

There are two medium size arial roots which look healthy (one of which then splits into two, both of which are quite thick) and all of these are growing new tips just now. There is another arial root from low down on the plant which I'm not sure about.

A new (arial) root is quite short (visible in the first two pictures) and there is another very small root tip just starting a bit lower.

There is also a lot of the central part of the plant which is all dried up where the leaves fell off recently.

So what do I do?

I've read about 'Sphag and Bag' is it time for that?
Or do I just pot it back up (after removing the dead roots) and then do the usual misting of the arial roots and keeping it humid and slightly darker stuff.

Swamper · #2 08-16-2008, 12:40 PM

Great question. I'd really like to know myself cause you have such good new growth, Id be weary of cutting. So Im gonna tag along and read the replies here.

RosieC · #3 08-16-2008, 01:34 PM

I've clipped some of the more obviously dead roots away, currently leaving any where the root is still healthy lower down.

They are not mushy and do not smell rotten, but are just a hollow shell with the hard thread down the center.

The solid feeling roots are bright green inside but where that meets the hollow bit they are black. I have cut some away just above the black and seen the bright green.

After each cut I have coated the surface with cinnamon.

BUGS!
As I cut away one root I noticed lots of tiny tiny (almost invisible) white bugs crawling in the hollow portion. Is this the cause of the problem or just a side effect?!

When I look closer I can see one or two in other hollow sections that I have already cut away.

I've also since found them in the humidity tray that's been under this plant (a tray with pebbles to hold the pot above the water). My husband has taken that and washed the stones and tray in bleach.

I'm guessing I shouldn't re-use the bark it's come out of right?!

But are the bugs the cause of the problem and how do I get rid of them?

Should I carry on cutting away the rest of the dead roots?

I have currently left the phal resting in an empty pot and I have misted it's arial roots (which are healthy just now).

HELP!!!

bonsai1504 · #4 08-16-2008, 02:11 PM

i've had phals that look much worse than that. i'd just repot and give it some tlc and it should be fine! and about the bugs, spray the whole plant with 70% rubbing alcohol and then pot it up in fresh medium.

Swamper · #5 08-16-2008, 02:12 PM

In the meantime while you are waiting for expert advice, you are doing the right thing by misting the roots. I would definately not use the same nedium /bark it was in. I did just cut back a bunch of roots like you are describing on a huge (to me) phal that was given to me. After I had finished I was asking myself ...My God!!! what have I done???? that was last week and it looks semi happy though a little freaked out maybe?
Those bugs...I hate bugs to pieces ...people here use soap and water...mouth wash, listerine?..whatever you go with I'm sure you wont repot till you get rid of all those bugs first. I dont know who came first the bugs or the problem, but just get rid of the bugs now. Good luck

bonsai1504 · #6 08-16-2008, 06:15 PM

i got the bug info from ray's site and that method has worked for me!

quiltergal · #7 08-16-2008, 06:34 PM

Well, I'm hardly an expert, but I have had some experience with Phals and root rot. My first question is what kind of bark are you using? Is it one of the pre-mixed ones for orchids? If it is I suspect that is where the bugs came from. Often those pre-mixed bags of bark have been sitting around for so long they are half decomposed before you ever open the bag. If that's the case repotting your plant into "fresh" decomposed bark won't help, it will only make the problem worse. The bugs are fungus gnats, or springtails. They eat the fungus that grows in bark as it decomposes. In nice fresh bark you won't see any bugs. Soooo, my first recommedation is to look for bark that hasn't been pre-mixed. You will need to soak it overnight to rid if of any salts and to open the fibers of the wood chips so they will retain water better. I don't particularly like bark. I think it decomposes way too fast. I use coconut husk chunks mixed with perlite and charcoal. I make my own mix.

The good news is your roots don't look so bad. You have lots of new roots emerging so it's doing fine. I've had much worse rot, and fewer good roots and been able to turn the plant around. It can take a long time, but in the end very worth it. So far everything you have done is spot on. Just make sure the quality of your medium is excellent.

RosieC · #8 08-17-2008, 04:51 AM

Big thanks to eveyone who has responded.

From the descriptions I've found of springtails they sound a bit like that.

It seems to me like whatever they are they solution is just about the same.

1. Wash the roots in either, Soapy Water, Rubbing Alchol or Listerine or something like that.
2. Re-pot into bug free fresh medium

The medium is not that decayed looking. I'm thinking I could wash that with whatever I pick to wash the plant.

Currently it's sitting in the pot with no medium arround it and I'm spraying the good roots to keep it hydrated until I decide what to do about the medium.

Glucke · #9 09-25-2016, 07:41 AM

2016 is probably too late for a reply and I have only 2 years experience with my orchid hospital. Plants I receive typically Look like yours or worse. The roots in the pot are dead and stink, while the epiphyt tries to escape from the pot with its last remaining roots.
I always remove the rotten soil very carefully, put the plant in a glas pot and dip the roots in rain water over night and Keepern them dry during daytime. Each plant has its own rythm. Chalk containing water is dangerous. Sorry for my German-English.

No-Pro-mwa · #10 09-25-2016, 10:49 AM

Welcome Gluke. Yes I'd say this one is either dead or going strong. Eight years and all. Also I haven't seen Rosie on in a while not sure what happened to her. I guess busy.