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  #21  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:39 AM
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cneos cneos is offline
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from Royal "but it was AOS that established judging centers across the country to make them freely accessible to all growers."
Although it costs nothing to have a plant judged, when an award is made, the cost of an award covers paperwork, etc. There are costs associated with AOS judging whether an award is made or not - i.e. judging center facility rental.
A Judging Center is 'open for business' on a set day, usually for about four hours. Whether a plant is awarded, or even whether people bring plants to judge, the rent is due. Incidentally, AOS judges are VOLUNTEERS who DO NOT GET PAID for their time nor are they reimbursed for mileage.
These days, many non-profits including AOS are struggling to make ends meet.
No one is forcing me to support AOS or other organizations to which I belong - I do it because I have the CHOICE to do so.
  #22  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:42 AM
Swamper Swamper is offline
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Maria pulled out the Dictionary? No she didn't!!! LMAO
  #23  
Old 08-01-2010, 12:25 PM
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King_of_orchid_growing:) King_of_orchid_growing:) is offline
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Look...

I'm not currently a member of the AOS. I've never been a member of the AOS. I probably won't be in the near future.

But I will not ever go so far as to say boycott the AOS for costs incurred that I felt I didn't like or a magazine that I felt was not up to current standards.

I do understand that while I may not be a member of the AOS, and that I myself may not need the services of the AOS currently, other people may need it for whatever their individual reasons are.

The way I look at is you got a few options here:

1. Leave the AOS and don't bother with it, with the sense that the services aren't needed and your standards aren't met.

2. Get angry and do something for the AOS to move it in the direction you're hoping it would go (I mean, this seems like an organization that you seem to give some shred of a crap about, otherwise why post something about it?).

3. Get angry and try to undermine an organization that others may need and like.

Which choice would you like to choose? Which one seems the most productive? Which choice helps not just yourself, but others as well.

You have every right to be upset. You also have every right to voice you opinions. But I encourage you to also look at the bigger picture in the interests of not just yourself, but others as well. This is the challenge of being in a society.

AOS = American Orchid *Society*
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Last edited by King_of_orchid_growing:); 08-01-2010 at 12:40 PM..
  #24  
Old 08-01-2010, 12:26 PM
epiphyte78 epiphyte78 is offline
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Ok, you're right...judging does have some relevance. When an orchid in cultivation can't handle conditions that it has no problem with in nature we can thank the AOS judging system for encouraging breeding along purely superficial lines. So the only relevance of the judging system is turning orchids into pansies.

Other than that...it's definitely not relevant to the discussion because no part of the $65 goes towards the award system. Nearly all of that money goes towards the cost of publishing the magazine. Switching over to a online model will significantly reduce the cost of membership and make the information accessible to more people.

Is the problem that the AOS is not aware that the articles can be shared online for free? Maybe...it is possible that they haven't heard of the Orchid Board or the Orchid Species Encyclopedia.

But I'm going to guess that they are fully aware that free online models exist and are successful but for unknown reasons continue with the $65 per year magazine model. Well...it's not much of a guess because I brought the issue up 2 years ago and in fairly regular intervals since then. This is just to make sure that you folks are fully aware as well.

Some food for thought...imagine how drastically membership on the Orchid Board would be impacted if Marty started charging $65 per year.
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  #25  
Old 08-01-2010, 12:50 PM
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King_of_orchid_growing:) King_of_orchid_growing:) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphyte78 View Post

So the only relevance of the judging system is turning orchids into pansies.
I don't fully get the scope of what the other information you put up means, so I'm not going to go where I don't understand, okay.

But the above statement is purely opinionated, and you know it.

Hybridization has multiple factors involved. One of them is for the purposes of people adapting a group of plants they like to an environment that suits the grower better.

The above mentioned sole purpose is an individual to individual thing.

I may not like growing too many hybrids, but I get why others do. In fact, I've grown hybrids before and still to some degree have a few. So I'm not going to alienate. Get what I mean?

Dude, you're still very heated and angry. Cool them jets a bit and think about things. I mean, really think about things.
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Last edited by King_of_orchid_growing:); 08-01-2010 at 01:05 PM..
  #26  
Old 08-01-2010, 12:55 PM
kavanaru kavanaru is offline
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just my ... it seems that some people always forget the following:

online publications are fine, modern and accesible via internet (when you have access to internet - believe it or not, still in 2010 a LOT of people do not have access to internet!), however, storage of online publications in libraries are not always easy... yes, you can put them in a CD-ROM, but who can ensure you that in 30 years, you still have the appropriate software to open those files? no kidding, this is an important issue when archiving digital data (in my work, I am obligued to archive all documents for at least 15 years after the end of my studies, and we are also obligued to ensure that we keep a software to open those digital files when needed, and this costs A LOT of money!!)

so, even though some people considere the quality and content of the AOS magazine to be rubbish, it is also true that those are important documents for the hobby and often you also have important articles and information in there, which need to be archived in.. let's say libraries the simplest way to do this is as paper copies.... this also ensure that the magazines are avaible also off-line...

let me put an example... (ok, I am not sure whether this is the case in the AOS magazine, but it is the case in the magazine of other Orchids Societies)... Mr.XXX-don't-believe-in-paper-anymore happens to be a botanist and discover a new species.. Mr.Mr.XXX-don't-believe-in-paper-anymore happens also to be very patriotic and because he is USAmerican, he decides that the publication of the species MUST be in the magazine of the AOS... so far so good... now, 15 years later, Mr. YYY in somewhere is doing a revision of the genus, to which the species described by Mr.XXX-don't-believe-in-paper-anymore belongs. Mr. YYY happens to have limited or no access to internet (for whatever reason... e.g. controlled Internet at his research institute, like it could be the case in some countries, or temporary connection problems)... so, ifthe descrption is not available on paper, this species cannot be be revised for Mr. YYY's work...

I know, a very simplified example, but somehow a possible escenario...
  #27  
Old 08-01-2010, 01:22 PM
stefpix stefpix is offline
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People that write articles and take photos spend time, energy to research and edit. Making a publication is not just printing costs.

Maybe people on the board here do it as a hobby for the most part, but to produce something good you need to spend time and money. SOmetimes you have to travel and so on.

It is a big issue in publishing with all the free blogs. But to do good research you need budgets.

So if you do not like it do not join it.
Boycotts are for those that harm people, life or abuse workers and so on. You could boycott brands that exploit children's labor and so on. But urge a boycott something because you do not like it is a bit much.
I may agree with you regarding pansies etc... I do not care about awards and hybrids. I like to see what grows in nature and I am ok with blemishes on leaves etc.
If the AOS is out of touch with the times that are changing they probably will change or fold.

Anyway AOS or non AOS you will always be able to buy and grow orchids and maybe some other org will replace it.

Maybe they made a ton of $ in the past and have properties and now they are facing cuts.

That is the way it is. Even Pan Am folded and many other companies.

So many newspapers folded too.
Don't like it, do not buy it.
  #28  
Old 08-01-2010, 01:32 PM
peeweelovesbooks peeweelovesbooks is offline
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Quote:
Ok, you're right...judging does have some relevance. When an orchid in cultivation can't handle conditions that it has no problem with in nature we can thank the AOS judging system for encouraging breeding along purely superficial lines. So the only relevance of the judging system is turning orchids into pansies.
I am at a loss for words with your line of thinking. I don't even know what you mean? Do you mean that orchid judging systems generally are artificial means of determining the quality of orchids, thus encouraging the breeding of orchids as "lesser" specimens than they occur in nature?

If that's what you mean--then that's a criticism of ALL judging systems. Take the Olympics for example? How do judges impose a means of determining what a "perfect" tumble is? How about a perfect uneven bar routine? The Olympics/or any sport/competition for that matter, impose "artificial" criteria to determine who the "winner" is.

If that's your criticism,then you need to stop growing orchids. Because as a HOBBYIST, YOU are also contributing to this. By buying clones, selflings, etc. YOU are encouraging the turning of "orchids into pansies."

Orchid growing as a hobby is by its very nature taking something that grows in nature and reducing it to pot culture---which by it's very nature is an artificial means of cultivation.

Quote:
Other than that...it's definitely not relevant to the discussion because no part of the $65 goes towards the award system. Nearly all of that money goes towards the cost of publishing the magazine. Switching over to a online model will significantly reduce the cost of membership and make the information accessible to more people.
Taking the award fee aside, what do you thinkt the $65 dollar membership fee goes to? Ummm .... overhead, publication costs, etc. It's the cost of running an organization. Again, I don't see you have this humongous beef with Orchid Digest, or Kew, or Phalaenopsis journal, because none of the other aforementioned publications are available for free.


To repeat what Kavanaru indicated, I don't necessarily want to access a hobby of mine purely through the internet. Ummm...maybe I want to read it when enjoying my orchids....err...........pansies.


I gotta go and break the news to all of them that they arent' really orchids.....I'll tell you if they commit suicide by sunlight.
  #29  
Old 08-01-2010, 01:44 PM
Swamper Swamper is offline
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I wish to boycott this thread. No disrespect to anyone.
  #30  
Old 08-01-2010, 02:13 PM
PaphMadMan PaphMadMan is offline
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I'd just like to say, if what someone else builds doesn't work for you, go your own way. Tearing it down is not productive use of your time, and might take away exactly what someone else needs.
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