My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
  #1  
Old 05-12-2018, 04:47 PM
sara_86 sara_86 is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 16
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
Exclamation My Paph urbanianum is not doing well

Hi - I have a question for Paph urbanianum growers. I got my plant last year in january and it's really not doing well. I got it together with a paph hirsutissimum that I have been treating all the same and that's really beautiful and healthy, and currently gave me three wonderful (and freaky) flowers. Is there any particular care I need to give to the urbanianum that I am missing? The roots are suffering HUGELY. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. Does it need distilled water? I live in London and the water here is very heavy in salts.
Thanks!
Sara
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-13-2018, 04:34 AM
estación seca's Avatar
estación seca estación seca is offline
Senior Member
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
 

Join Date: Jun 2015
Zone: 9b
Location: Phoenix AZ - Lower Sonoran Desert
Posts: 8,687
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well Male
Default

What does the water quality report from your water company show?
__________________
It's a dry heat.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-13-2018, 06:50 AM
sara_86 sara_86 is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 16
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
Default

Hi - this is what I could find

The water supplied in the KENTISH TOWN zone is HARD water.

Calcium carbonate(CaCO3): 279 ppm

Other hardness measurements
Degrees Clarke:19
Degrees German(DH):16
Degrees French:28

Natural fluoride content of your water:0.1 ppm

Water we supply contains virtually no lead.

I also have the details of other elements, but the pdf is too heavy to be uploaded, in case you could advise on that I could tell you the concentrations of the critical elements

Thank you SO much!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:05 PM
King_of_orchid_growing:)'s Avatar
King_of_orchid_growing:) King_of_orchid_growing:) is online now
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Zone: 9a
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sara_86 View Post
Hi - I have a question for Paph urbanianum growers. I got my plant last year in january and it's really not doing well. I got it together with a paph hirsutissimum that I have been treating all the same and that's really beautiful and healthy, and currently gave me three wonderful (and freaky) flowers. Is there any particular care I need to give to the urbanianum that I am missing? The roots are suffering HUGELY. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. Does it need distilled water? I live in London and the water here is very heavy in salts.
Thanks!
Sara
I don't grow the particular species you're growing, but I do currently grow a Paphiopedilum parishii and have grown a few other Paphs in the past, so hopefully, I can try to help you out some.

First off, can you provide photos of the plant with the pot and the potting medium it was growing in?

You say you live in London - what are the daytime and nighttime, as well as seasonal temperatures where the growing area is. I'm not so much interested in the temperature of your house in general or the temperature of your city or whatever. What are the temperatures where the plant is specifically located? If you don't know, you can buy a little thermometer with a probe for about $5 and place it where the orchid is growing.

How much light is it receiving?

From what I'm reading off the internet, Paph urbanianum is a plant that used to originate from the lowland forests of Mindoro Island in the Philippines. If you've ever been to tropical countries such as the Philippines, you'll know that it is usually pretty warm in the areas of low elevation. It doesn't usually drop below 15.5 C, (60 F), at night and the daytime temperatures under the forest canopy can get somewhere around 35 C, (95 F). It can be pretty humid, (the relative humidity usually hovers between 75% - 90%).

These areas usually have a monsoonal type of season. This means that the area may get rain throughout the year, but there is one particular part of the year where there is more rain than the other parts of the year. You can check the annual rainfall of the area to get a rough idea of what it is like.

High mineral content is probably not that big of a deal. Many Paphs need a trace amount of dissolved calcium in the water. You can buy test kits that test for freshwater calcium carbonate levels at the local aquarium shop. Many of the calcium test kits sold are for saltwater aquarium use, but some of them can be used to test for freshwater as well. Do your research if you're planning on testing the calcium carbonate levels in your tap water.

You may also test for Total Dissolved Solids, (TDS), in your tap water, but that is not terribly useful as an indicator. It is too general of a measurement. All TDS says is that the water's got dissolved solids in the water and the concentration of all the dissolved solids in your water. It doesn't mention what those solids are and what the concentrations of each of those solids are.

Some of the sources I have looked up says that it grows in humus. Since those said same sources also say that the orchid is extinct in the wild, I am not able to find any examples of how this plant grows in the wild, but I can find an example of how Paphiopedilum callosum grows in the wild. Despite it growing in humus in the wild, the roots still need to breathe. So maybe a potting medium of shredded bark mixed in with some leaf litter would work. If that is not convenient, another possibility would be to use tree fern fiber.

I would also recommend using a pot size that fits the root stock.

Paphiopedilum roots in general do not grow very fast. If the roots are damaged, that will set the plant back a great deal.

It is probably a Paph of the mottled leaf variety. If so, then it needs bright shade to moderately bright indirect light.

Another piece of advice would be to not judge how one species of orchid would do based off of how another species of orchid is doing. Don't even try to do that with different individuals of the same species. Plants are like us humans in this respect. Each individual is different from one another.

I'll give you a real life example from my own personal experience...

I have 7 individuals of Calypso bulbosa var occidentalis. Each individual is in different levels of health and well being, as well as at different stages of their growth/growth cycle. Four individuals dropped leaves earlier than the other 3 individuals did, signaling dormancy. Two dormant bulbs received a massive amount of damage due to fungal infections. Others did not show a large amount of damage, but rather showed small signs of it. Some bulbs were oblong/elliptical in shape, while some are oval in shape. Some individuals only consisted of 1 new mature bulb with 1 old shriveling bulb per plant. There were two that I received with multiple growths/bulbs. Different individuals had different leaf sizes. Some bulbs had 1 root per bulb, while others had 2 roots per bulb. If I treated them all the same no matter what, I would've lost 2 to rot within days, and two additional bulbs to overwatering because they went dormant earlier than the remaining 3 did. These individuals are all Calypso bulbosa var. occidentalis, but look at the variation that is in this group of 7 plants alone. What I'm telling you is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of individual variation within a species.

I have multiples of other species of orchids as well, and this variation between individuals is present in all the orchids I have multiple individuals of.

There is some amount of individualized care balanced out with general care for all within the species. You've got to know when to do what. That is where experience in the hobby comes in.
__________________
Philip

Last edited by King_of_orchid_growing:); 05-14-2018 at 05:22 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:13 PM
estación seca's Avatar
estación seca estación seca is offline
Senior Member
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
 

Join Date: Jun 2015
Zone: 9b
Location: Phoenix AZ - Lower Sonoran Desert
Posts: 8,687
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well Male
Default

How about pH?

The hardness is acceptable. The Huntington Gardens in Los Angeles use their well water on their Paphs, and it has far more dissolved minerals than you do.
I doubt your water quality is the problem.

What is your potting medium, and when was this plant last repotted? What do you mean by roots suffering? Can you post photos of the entire plant in the pot, and the base of the plant?
__________________
It's a dry heat.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:32 PM
sara_86 sara_86 is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 16
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
Default

Thanks both for the reply - the pH of the water is 7.6-7.9

Here are the pics.

The roots are completely rotten it looks, however the plant has just budded a new leaf... it's very strange, whenever I think it's about to die a new leaf comes out.

I water it once a week, twice weekly I use the orchid focus grow on it.

The light is very good in this flat, we are on the 4th floor and have massive windows - all of my other orchids thrive since I moved here. No direct sunlight of course, the paphs dont like it - they were in direct sunlight when I got them one year and a half ago and their leafs were getting brown so I moved them in the shade and that hasnt happened anymore.

Temperature is not an issue here - because we have so many big windows it feels like a greenhouse, temp never drops below 18 - maybe 17 during the night and normally around 23 probably during the day even without heating. I think the problem is somewhere with the roots, which is probably independent of temperature.

I also have an hirsutissimum and a pinocchio that are doing great - all treated in the same way.... I know it doesnt mean that they are the same just because they are paph but one would imagine that same conditions wouldnt take to such a difference...

Thanks!
Sara
Attached Thumbnails
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well-img_20180513_180310-jpg   My Paph urbanianum is not doing well-img_20180513_180330-jpg   My Paph urbanianum is not doing well-img_20180513_180436-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:53 PM
estación seca's Avatar
estación seca estación seca is offline
Senior Member
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
 

Join Date: Jun 2015
Zone: 9b
Location: Phoenix AZ - Lower Sonoran Desert
Posts: 8,687
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well Male
Default

The urbanianum isn't getting enough air to the roots, and they are rotting. Paphs are sturdy plants that want to grow. If you give it more air to the roots it should recover nicely. They like to be evenly moist, but we sometimes make mistakes. In my limited Paph experience, they are harmed much less by drying completely every now and then, rather than staying too wet.

The big, healthy plant is able to use the water in the container fairly rapidly. As the water is drawn into the plant, air spaces enlarge between chunks of medium. The medium in your small pot with the urbanianum stays wet a long time, and the air spaces are obliterated with water. This leads to roots suffocating and rotting.

If you want to use that kind of medium, I would move it to a much smaller container, so there is more air to the roots. Many people grow small and seedling Paphs in relatively deep but narrow containers. The roots seem to like to dive deeply into the medium.

Most people recommend repotting Paphs every 1-2 years, because the medium breaks down so rapidly when kept constantly moist. When this happens fine particles block air spaces and roots suffer.

While the urbanianum is growing new roots, keep it evenly moist. If you have a heavy hand with the watering can, you might consider using a larger-particle medium with more air spaces. The large bark chunks with the moss removed would do well in this situation.

Perhaps read about semi-hydroponic culture in the forum here on Orchid Board. I have mine in S/H and they do very well. It's impossible to overwater a plant in S/H, so it's a good growing method for people with a tendency to overwater.
__________________
It's a dry heat.
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes sara_86 liked this post
  #8  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:36 PM
sara_86 sara_86 is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 16
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well
Default

Thank you for the encouragement, it's def a sensible thing to try. I have put my paph in half clay pebbles, 1/4 seramis 1/4 bark in a smaller pot as in the pic. The media seems much more airy, fingers crossed! I'll let you know how this ends
Attached Thumbnails
My Paph urbanianum is not doing well-img_20180513_193115-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:23 AM
camille1585's Avatar
camille1585 camille1585 is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: middle of the Netherlands
Posts: 11,366
Default

Sara, I hope that you don't mind that I have merged and moved all your duplicate posts on this subject and all the replies you received. Having everything in one thread makes it easier for people to follow. In the future, it's best to create your own thread when you have a question, and only post it once, in one forum. People are very active here, and your post will be seen!
__________________
Camille

Completely orchid obsessed and loving every minute of it....

My Orchid Photos
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:16 AM
King_of_orchid_growing:)'s Avatar
King_of_orchid_growing:) King_of_orchid_growing:) is online now
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Zone: 9a
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,812
Default

I honestly think the pot can be smaller. Try using a 5 cm (2 inch) pot instead of a 7.54 cm (3 inch pot). If it is top heavy, you can place the functional pot in a heavier non-functional clay or ceramic pot that has drainage holes on the bottom.

All I will add regarding individual orchids within the same species behaving differently from one another is that you can think of it this way...

If I were in the same room you were in, would we both behave or react exactly the same as each other?

I think the answer would be no. We may have some similarities to each other. But we will not be exactly like one another even if we are in the same environment.

By the way, I think it will recover. I would also probably remove the Hydroton or LECA (whatever brand those clay pebbles are). They retain a lot of moisture. Seramis might be ok... The American equivalent of Seramis is a clay rock product called Turface.

The large grade bark alone is fine enough, in my opinion.

Many orchids are fine with the water's pH being in the range of 6.5 to 8.0. Only a tiny percentage of orchids are true acidophiles.

Many Paphs, (not all), grow in areas where there are large amounts of calcium deposits or calcium formations in the wild.

Your temperatures seem fine.

Plant seems to also be getting sufficient light.

Plant has at least one strong root. That is all it needs for now until it fully recovers.
__________________
Philip

Last edited by King_of_orchid_growing:); 05-15-2018 at 10:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The serial Paph killer (wall of text)... The Mutant Beginner Discussion 28 01-21-2015 03:36 AM
Paph. urbanianum '#2' eggshells Cypripedium Alliance - Paphiopedilum 7 05-23-2014 01:46 AM
Paph. urbanianum eggshells Cypripedium Alliance - Paphiopedilum 7 01-31-2014 09:22 PM
My collection The Mutant Orchid Lounge 16 10-25-2012 02:08 PM
My orchid list......... Bolero Orchid Lounge 9 05-22-2008 06:24 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:30 PM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.