EU Action on pesticides

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

As with just about everything there is always an opposing view and it's up to the individual to figure out the most credible.

Jon Entine: The Chemical Industry's Master Messenger

Are we discussing an issue or are we discussing the people involved?

[dansyr]

While bees are an important crop pollinator, especially since they're so social that it's economically and ecologically feasible to literally truck them around, I'm more concerned about the non-bee pollinator species. Losing bees would be really bad, but losing pollinator diversity so we only have bees left is even scarier IMHO.

[Dollythehun]

Originally Posted by Subrosa

Global consensus finds neonicotinoids not driving honeybee health problems—Why is Europe so determined to ban them? | Genetic Literacy Project

That's an interesting article, Subrosa. All food for thought and cautious response.

[Leafmite]

I raised monarch butterflies with no problems for many, many years but, then, I began to notice problems I had never seen before. After two years of many unexplained developmental issues that I saw that I had never seen in the past, I stopped raising them as it was just too depressing. That was six years ago. So, I think it is not just bees that are being effected but also the offspring of other pollinators that come into contact with systemically treated plants.

[Paul]

A couple notes, most grains do not require pollinators ... they are wind pollinated.

Loss of your caterpillars, LM, very possibly had nothing to do with use of systemics. GMO corn or other grains would be a likely culprit if grown anywhere in your area. The GMO's have had part of the genome from Bacteria thuringiensis spliced into them. The pollen -- which is wind borne -- contains it as well. If the pollen lands on leaves of other plants and is ingested by caterpillars, it has been found to kill the caterpillars.

Personally, I do use Imidacloprid occasionally on my houseplants and will continue to do so when I deem necessary. Being as the plants in question are not kept outside, I don't have to worry about pollinators being affected.

[Leafmite]

It is good to know about the grains. When we grew sweet corn, I always found bees among the tassels. I am not the only one, apparently,

Bees pollinating corn | David George Haskell

Another good article:

Field Crops and Bees: Research Shows Surprising Relationships, Need for Better Management | CFAES

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by Subrosa

Global consensus finds neonicotinoids not driving honeybee health problems—Why is Europe so determined to ban them? | Genetic Literacy Project

Subrosa, thanks for the post. I went to a talk a few years ago where Dr. Keith S. Delaplane, a world-renowned bee expert, discussed many of the problems in the article you linked. When directly asked about the threat to bees by pesticides, although he didn't totally dismiss that risk, he was clearly more concerned about the risk due to Varroa mites and disease. The talk accompanied a viewing of the film More Than Honey which includes depictions of how modern beekeeping is conducted, with hives trucked hundreds of miles every week or so to pollinate almonds in California one week, some other crop in Washington state, etc.the next week, and so on through the growing season. After a brutal season of pollinating crops all over the country, the honey harvest is equally brutal, killing many of the bees that produced the honey. With such treatment, the surprise is not that some colonies collapse, it is more of a surprise that any colonies survive. I encourage anyone interested in bees to watch More Than Honey .

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Subrosa

Global consensus finds neonicotinoids not driving honeybee health problems—Why is Europe so determined to ban them? | Genetic Literacy Project

Thank you for posting this. There is a lot of rhetoric (and laws) out there lacking scientific evidence and this is another such case.

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

Loss of your caterpillars, LM, very possibly had nothing to do with use of systemics. GMO corn or other grains would be a likely culprit if grown anywhere in your area. The GMO's have had part of the genome from Bacteria thuringiensis spliced into them. The pollen -- which is wind borne -- contains it as well. If the pollen lands on leaves of other plants and is ingested by caterpillars, it has been found to kill the caterpillars.

This is absolutely, 100% not true. GMOs are proven time and time and time again to have ZERO negative impact on the environment and human health. You can rank anti-GMO rhetoric up there in the same category as anti-evolution, flat earth, or anti-vaccine rhetoric: Its all non-scientifically based gibberish based on fear and ignorance.

Forbes Welcome

GMO safety debate is over - Alliance for Science

Are G.M.O. Foods Safe? - The New York Times

[orchidsarefun]

The rhetoric can get overwhelming but as I said before and repeat - everyone should do their own due diligence in deciding.
GM corn IS having an impact. This article, as one example, links to numerous findings/studies on the decline in Monarch Butterfly populations.

Beyond Pesticides Daily News Blog >> Blog Archive Monarch Butterfly Numbers Keep Declining - Beyond Pesticides Daily News Blog
Another

Scientist finding many negative impacts of Roundup Ready GM crops

This article is scientifically factual and beyond argument
Three-quarters of the total insect population lost in protected nature reserves -- ScienceDaily

I think banning - and therefore encouraging pesticides formulation innovation - is a good thing. I personally applaud the EU for being proactive but then I suppose I'm crazy for preferring everything organic. Lol.

And this is more good news
State can label widely used herbicide as possible carcinogen - SFGate

[Dollythehun]

I would love to live in an all organic environment. But, I'd have to live in an organic cotten tent in the dessert (some days that sounds good).

I plant for pollinators. I try to be judicious in my pesticide selection. But, you cannot easily maintain a large property with no chemicals.

I too notice a dearth of butterflies, I do still see lots of bees. If you knew what Monsanto and others had in the works, it would chill you. Now that weeds are becoming Round up resistant the ante will be upped.


I agree with you and for another reason: I grew up on a farm. I ate wheat all my life. First I developed Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Syndrome (which I have pretty much healed from) and now I have severe digestive problems with wheat. I can eat non GMO wheat products, however. Upon research, I discovered that genetically modified grain has 8x the gluten content of non GMO grain.

So, yes, there's a problem here. Again, as Orchidsarefun says in a perfect world we'd all be organic but, now it's up to us to be good stewards with our knowledge.

Ironically, I am going out to spray chickweed and bittercress...because in my younger days, I was able to pull it by hand...

Steve, On some things we'll just have to agree to disagree in a gentlemanly fashion. And no, I'm not anti science.