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Old 02-18-2017, 03:27 AM
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Default Alan Koch, Gold Country Orchids, DVOS 2017 02 16

Alan Koch of Gold Country Orchids spoke to the Desert Valley Orchid Society on Thursday, February 16, 2017. He spoke of how it's important to know about the parents of hybrids to know how to grow the hybrids.

He also spoke about a wide scattering of plants and their peculiarities.

At the end was an interesting discussion of water, fertilizer and pH.

I took notes. I may have made some mistakes; I will correct the ones I notice or are pointed out to me.

***

Zygopetalums get spots on their leaves because they have areas of tissue that concentrate salts from water, to keep it away from most of the tissue. To prevent spots, flush when watering with pure water, and don't let the medium dry out. Use a plastic pot, which helps in keeping medium moist. Salts don't accumulate on the plastic pot, but rather wash out with watering. When medium dries out the leaves concentrate salts even further, leading to spots. For Zygos, use long fiber New Zealand sphagnum moss in a plastic pot and keep moist. Do not pack the moss tightly; leave it loose so there is a lot of air, but it can stay moist. An Australian breeder wanted a Zygo that is warmth tolerant and doesn't spot. Advance Australia is the result of 30+ years of hybridizing; it tolerates 70 F / 21C nights, doesn't spot if grown in NZ sphagnum moss in a plastic pot.

Epidendrum polybulbon flowers better hanging over the pot or on a horizontal mount.

Sarcochilus australis - everybody says it grows in bright light. He found them in dense shade, 400fc. Now he can grow them. He said he killed more of this than any other orchid before learning they are low-light plants.

Brassavola nodosa and grandiflora are very similar, even grow in similar areas. May be two forms of the same species. Nodosa has thicker leaves; grandiflora wider leaves. But B. grandiflora grows on coffee trees under the canopy - gets more shade and water. B. nodosa grows near the tops of trees on twigs. It gets a lot more sun and dries out much faster. Which is a better hybrid parent for windowsill or light stand growing? The one needing less light.

Cattleya nobilior is always found on horizontal tree limbs. It grows better horizontally. He showed photos of nobiliors mounted on vertical pieces of wood. Many died. He put the remainder, still on mounts, in baskets that let the mounts lie horizontally. The plants took off and flowered best on the growths hanging out of the baskets.

Dendrobium / Dockrillia wasselii also needs a horizontal mount. It doesn't grow well on a vertical mount.

Cattleya luteola is a very low light plant. The lower the light, the more flowers it produces. In bright light, only 1 flower; in low light, 4 flowers. It is also very salt sensitive.

Dendrobium cuthbertsonii in habitat in New Guinea sees temperatures never over 75 F / 24C and gets 250" / 635cm of rain per year. His plants in Sacramento, California tolerate occasional days of 110 F / 43C. He has bred tetraploids for temperature tolerance. He deflasks in July in 100 F / 38C days to weed out the weaker plants. He gets 90% survival. His method is growing them in New Zealand sphagnum moss, using extremely pure water, and keeping them very moist. His plants flower 18 months out of flask. He showed several different color forms.

Sophronitis coccinea also needs lots of very pure water. In habitat it is cool and moist all the time. We shouldn't try it in metro Phoenix because even homes are too hot. It won't grow in south Florida, either. It does OK in coastal southern California, but not much inland. He keeps them alive in Sacramento for breeding purposes, but his plants do not look good, though they do flower.

Sophronitis cernua is a warm grower, and we should have no trouble with it in metro Phoenix on a windowsill. It has thick, succulent leaves. In habitat it annually goes 3 months without water. It is warmth tolerant and does fine on a windowsill.

Sophronitis brevipedunculata grows at 1100 feet / 335 meters. It also needs flushing with pure water. There was an extensive discussion of watering and fertilizing at the end of the talk - keep reading.

Cattleya intermedia regularly tolerates temperatures of 22 - 110 F / -6 to 43C and has just survived several days of 17 F / -8.3C. He told the story of a hobbyist who had a heater failure during a cold winter and lost an entire collection of Cymbidiums. The one C. intermedia in the greenhouse was the only plant that survived, albeit in poor shape. There is a dwarf coastal sand form; he measured the sand around one blooming at 110 F / 43C. There is also a higher-elevation inland form which is much bigger plant. The two forms are the same plant; when one kind is grown in the other place, it changes its form. The dwarfing is due to heat and dryness.

Cattleya loddigesii tolerates 117 F / 47C.

He could never get Macroclinium lexerzana to bloom well. He grew his in morning light, afternoon shade. It is pollinated by mosquitoes. He visited a friend in Florida and saw a plant blooming profusely, surrounded by mosquitoes, in afternoon shade. He moved his plant to afternoon shade and it began blooming profusely.

Oeceoclades spathulata is a terrestrial orchid from Madagascar. It grows from an annually renewing corm. People import them and, being orchids, they plant them just beneath the surface of the soil. They die. The plant needs to hide from predators so the corm is buried deeply in the wild. If you plant corms deeply they do well.

Brachypetalum Paphiopedilums like extra lime in their soil - egg shells, dolomite, oyster shells. There was an extensive discussion of lime and pH at the end of the talk; keep reading for that.

Some plants are unlike their relatives. Pleurothallis leptotifolia requires extremely bright bright bright light.

Leptotes bicolor flowers better in Phalaenopsis light, with a lot more flowers. In brighter light it gets many fewer flowers. Temperature doesn't matter to its flowering.

Paphiopedilum hirsutissimum grows in shady jungles. But even in the jungles it grows in sinkholes in even less light, much less than Phalaenopsis light. After he saw this he moved his to very low light and got it awarded.

Phalaenopsis will bloom in bright light but high-light flowers when dried weigh only 40% of flowers in low light. You get more and bigger flowers in lower light.

Paphiopedilum rothschildianum grows under deciduous trees. It gets a very bright winter. The multiflorals don't like root disturbance; most Paphs are fine to repot annually, but roth prefers a 2 year repotting cycle.

The Chinese Paphiopedilums like malipoense also need lime in their soil.

Aerangis hariotiana is salt sensitive and does better mounted. If you use rain water you don't have to worry. They grow in Phalaenopsis light.

Aerangis luteoalba must dry between waterings. They don't last long if kept moist.

Brassavola / Rhyncholaelia digbyana grows on the south side (Northern Hemisphere) of deciduous trees in full winter sun. Years ago he was visiting a nursery in Florida. The owner had him help carry an enormous Rh. digbyana with two 2" x 4" x 8' / 5cm x 10cm x 2.75m boards as carrying handles. The man left it exposed to full Florida sun all winter. The plant became red-tinged but bloomed spectacularly. He said a seedling Rh. digbyana should be able to tolerate this kind of sun once it has 4-5 pseudobulbs.

Cattleya schilleriana is the only Cattleya with stomata (breathing pores) on its roots. It must be mounted, or grown with roots exposed. This accounts for its reputation as difficult to grow.

Cattleya araguaiensis has photosynthetic roots. If you grow it in a clear pot or mounted it has 28% larger flowers.

Cattleya aclandiae also has photosynthetic roots and likewise does better mounted.

Laelia briegeri grows in detritus patches on bare rock where it might be 115 F / 46C. It does not grow on the bare rock! The detritus and moss keeps the roots cooler. Laelia crispata (formerly L. flava) grows nearby but in deep grass so it doesn't see those kinds of temperatures.

Cattleya dowiana needs a long, dry winter or it rots. It gets no winter rain.

Cattleya walkeriana blooms twice yearly if it has uniformly longish days and not too much day length variation. In metro Los Angeles it blooms twice a year; in Sacramento, only once. It needs to become completely dry between watering. It grows on twigs or rocks, so it does best in a clear pot, mounted or in a shallow basket. It also has photosynthetic roots. It walks out of any container, and often blooms best on the growths hanging off the edge. It imparts twice-yearly blooming to lots of its hybrids.

Cattleya nobilior must dry from December to February. It needs a horizontal mount, not a vertical mount.

When potting with New Zealand sphagnum in clay, never fill the pot with moss. As the plant grows the roots will compact the moss too much. Instead, wrap a collar of long-fiber moss around the base of the plant so the plant fits snugly into the pot, leaving the bottom portion of the pot empty. As the plant grows roots they will push the moss into the pot.

Laelia sincorana does better on a mount.

Laeliocattleya Sierra Doll needs to dry out well between waterings due to its Cattleya walkeriana heritage. It is C. walkeriana x C. Pink Doll.

Laeliocattleya (Cattleya) Love Knot has the best fragrance. It is Laelia (Cattleya) sincorana x Cattleya walkeriana. He showed a photo of a 2n and a tetraploid Love Knot side by side; the tetraploid flower was much bigger.

Laeliocattleya (Cattleya) Tahoe Rose is Laelia (Cattleya) purpurata x Cattleya walkeriana. It has excellent fragrance, too, especially caerulea forms.

Blue Cattleyas have the best fragrances.

Laeliocattleya Fuschia Doll is Laeliocattleya Sierra Doll x Laelia sincorana. He has remade this with very dark parents.

Cattlianthe Orchidglade is Guarianthe / Cattleya aurantiaca x Cattleya walkeriana. It blooms 3 times per year.

Benzyladenine is used in cloning to encourage proliferation of tissue. It causes mutations. Coconut water also causes proliferation without mutants. There are some orchids that will not proliferate with coconut water, but will with benzyladenine.

Fertilizer, pH and water discussion:

He said orchid roots absorb everything they can in 25 minutes. Because you want the plants to take up as much fertilizer as possible when you fertilize, you should apply fertilizer solutions only to dry roots. Watering first, then fertilizing, prevents plants from taking up as much fertilizer as they could if receiving only fertilizer solution. It is a bad idea as well as wasting fertilizer. An audience member challenged him on this. He pointed out he has a masters' degree in agriculture, and fertilizing dry has been standard teaching in agriculture for over 30 years. He reiterated never to water first before fertilizing.

He has well water with 700 ppm total dissolved solids. He waters most things with this water, then flushes with a small amount of RO water to rinse it out of the pot and keep salts off the roots. He does this especially with salt-sensitive plants. He says other well-known California orchid growers do this.
[Editorial note: Of course, reverse osmosis or rain water is better for almost all orchids. I don't think he was saying 700 ppm TDS is good for orchids. Rather, I think he was saying how he deals with his water situation. Nursery owners use huge amounts of water, and purifying huge amounts of water is hugely expensive. I discussed with him at the break that I collect rain for my orchids. He mentioned this was ideal, but I have to be careful about ensuring adequate calcium, magnesium and trace minerals. I said I use an MSU fertilizer for pure water, and he said this was good.]

He uses a lot of Cal-Mag fertilizer. Calcium requirements are proportional to growing temperatures. Some growers in Asia, where temperatures are high, must use calcium nitrate in addition to Cal-Mag or their Cattleya shoots turn black.

An audience member asked why the Cal-Mag is necessary when his water has 700 ppm TDS, since this is almost all calcium and magnesium salts. He said it is a matter of availability. Most water is alkaline so the calcium and magnesium are not taken up by roots. Orchids do well with pH 6.0-6.5; the calcium and magnesium are more soluble as pH drops. He said if we acidified our water to pH 6.0 and we have water with a lot of dissolved minerals, we will not need supplemental calcium. Calcium lack is the primary cause of blackening Cattleya shoots. He does not acidify his water due to the cost of doing it. He says he uses 10,000 gallons of water a day.

He uses the "Fertilizer then Flush" method for salt-sensitive plants. This means fertilize, wait 25 minutes so the roots have taken up as much as they can, then flush with fresh water to get salts off the roots.

There was a discussion of how to acidify water. Organic acids like vinegar are not good; they are weak, so you have to use a lot, and they contribute to rapid breakdown of bark. Sulfuric and hydrochloric acids are dangerous if splattered on a person or plant.

An audience member said golf course greenskeepers here use N-pHuric Acid N-pHURIC Information to acidify their water, and the audience member uses this for his acid-loving plants in the ground. It is buffered so it will not burn people. Once you have done a titration and figured out how much to add to your water, you can do that for a long time, since most municipal water supplies and wells don't change much.

For checking pH of water it is best and simplest to buy a pH meter. They are not expensive, they last a long time, and they are simple to use. pH paper does not work well and has a large margin of error. Liquid pH test kits can work well, but solutions don't last very long in storage.

People using rain or reverse osmosis water need to use fertilizers with calcium, magnesium and trace elements. MSU blends work well, and ensure correct pH.

He also recommended using Peters S.T.E.M. (liquid) to ensure adequate trace elements.

He said Phalaenopsis take up minerals even better when exposed to low pH, 4.0-4.5, briefly. He said to look up articles by Bill Argo on nutrition that were published in the International Phalaenopsis Alliance journal. These articles are now available at the St Augustine Orchid Society and First Ray's Web sites.
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Last edited by estación seca; 02-19-2017 at 06:04 PM.. Reason: Added information on Aerangis hariotiana, nutrient supplement information
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:32 AM
sam1147 sam1147 is offline
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Thank you so much.
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:50 AM
MattWoelfsen MattWoelfsen is offline
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Very informative. The short paragraphs on the Dendrobium cuthbertsonii, Sphronitis coccinea, Leptotes bicolor give me excellent tips on growing these three plants.
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:29 AM
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Alan Koch, Gold Country Orchids, DVOS 2017 02 16
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Very interesting notes on fertilizer, pH and water. One hundred percent in alignment with the information I have gleaned over the years from experts that I have come to trust as well as my own experience.

Once I got my pH correct (and check often as I am on well), stopped using the old school method of watering before fertilizing and started supplementing cal/mag into my routine my orchids have really started to thrive.

Thank you for posting this!
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:36 AM
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Thanks for taking notes and sharing, that was really helpful. Seems like there are some great tips and tidbits of information in there.

Just keep in mind that sometimes folks, even the experts, veer into the heavily opinionated and subjective territory when they talk, and that sometimes people misspeak or are just plain wrong. It's always (and I don't use that word often) a good idea to do your research and seek second or third opinions when you're thinking about purchasing a new plant that you haven't grown before. Same goes for radically changing your care routine. In regards to making changes to your care routine: Proceed slowly. Test it out on a small number of sacrificial plants first, and then give it time to work and see the long-term effects before adapting the change to your whole collection. For one, you have to give plants consistent care, and they need time to adapt to big changes. Also, if the change turns out to be detrimental, then you've only harmed or injured a small number of presumably less valuable plants.

And also, keep in mind that rules are made to be broken. For every tenant of good orchid growing that we mostly treat as gospel, there are people out there who ignore it, and yet are successful. I'm thinking about stuff like people who've grown dendrobiums and phalaenopsis in regular potting soil, those that never fertilize their plants, plants left in pots without drainage, and things of that nature. Plus, there are exceptions to every rule, especially in a family of plants as large and diverse as orchids.

As for the talk on water and pH, I think some of his advice is potentially misleading or better left to commercial greenhouse growers. I'm keeping things brief/simple here, so my points aren't necessarily detailed and/or may be skimping on nuances, but ...

1. I'm skeptical that telling people 700 ppm water is fine for growing orchids. 700 ppm doesn't indicate what's dissolved in the water, so some people might have luck with it, others in another area might not. Regardless, switching to RO/DI/rain or other pure, low TDS water is almost certainly going to result in improved health for your epiphytic orchids. Either way, the whole discussion sounds like he's recommending people not to worry too much about water quality, which might be fine for him in perfect greenhouse conditions, but maybe not such a good idea to promote for hobbyist growers that don't have that luxury.

2. I'm skeptical about the RO flush and its effectiveness as well. This may be speculation, but unless you're doing heavy flushes with pure water, filling the pot and even letting it soak for a bit, I would think nutrients are still going to build up. For instance, with my aquariums, when I've done 50% - 70% water changes with rain or RO in the past, I don't get anywhere near a 50% - 70% reduction in TDS. Plants, driftwood, decorative rocks, and substrate; any or all of those things help to trap dissolved solids the same way porous and organic potting mixes would.

3. As far as the "lime" information goes in relation to Paphiopedilums, definitely do some research there. It's my understanding that some Paphs like P. delenatii don't like additional pH raising calcium sources in their mix. It's weird that he's so detailed about the advice in other areas, but extremely generalized in this regard, with no mention of the most common Parvisepalum species preferring slightly different care than the rest.

4. As for the pH discussion, it does sound like his advice & experience is oriented entirely on greenhouse and large production growing. Yes, pH additives can get expensive at that scale, but for home growers, it's not a big deal. I've also read and heard that vinegar is a bad idea, but for instance, things like lemon juice (real, fresh squeezed juice, not the stuff in jars) work very well and are safe to use. Wouldn't be practical for commercial growers, but very doable for normal growers. Another word of caution though, there are lots of orchids that prefer neutral to alkaline pH so always try to do your research if you're targeting a specific pH.

Overall, I'm not saying Alan Koch's information is bad, far from it, just that there are alternate opinions on some of these matters, and what works for one, doesn't necessarily translate into success for others.
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:05 PM
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The person who brought up N-pHuric Acid wrote me this today. He uses an injector to add fertilizer and alter the pH of his drip line irrigation for his cycads in the ground. Oh, he's an engineer. 1 US gallon = 3.78 liters.
I just went thru my notes to see just what I had been doing to my cycad water since the topic came up again at the orchid mtg.

My well water hovers around 8.7pH. In order to get the magic number of 6.5, I use 5 liters of NpHuric acid per 5000 gal discharge [from the injector]. This works out nicely to 1ml/gal. Since 1 tsp= approx. 5ml, then 5ml of product is what you would add to a 5 gallon bucket for hand watering. Nice round numbers. Last spring I paid around $25 for 5 gal of NpHuric acid from Wilbur-Ellis (Tempe). You need to call the day before to have them draw it off to a 5 gal bucket, as they would rather sell the 100 gal cube-tainers. I would warn everyone to check the pH of the final product prior to application, as local waters vary in pH (or they may get the measurement wrong). No reason for an injector for hobbyists. But I cannot understand why people who carry $500 cell phones would balk at paying $50-60 for a good pH meter (Hanna).

I forgot to mention the obvious, that any acid in a drip irrigation system will reduce or eliminate the calcium build up that plugs lines & emitters.
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:27 PM
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Thanks for sharing your notes, Estación.
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:18 PM
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Thanks for the post, estacion. You are a super note-taker!
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter View Post
1. I'm skeptical that telling people 700 ppm water is fine for growing orchids....

2. I'm skeptical about the RO flush and its effectiveness as well. This may be speculation, but unless you're doing heavy flushes with pure water, filling the pot and even letting it soak for a bit, I would think nutrients are still going to build up....

4. As for the pH discussion, it does sound like his advice & experience is oriented entirely on greenhouse and large production growing....
Of course purer water is better. I don't think he was suggesting 700 ppm water is good; he was saying how to deal with it if buying pure water is considered too expensive. Maybe I should edit my initial message to make this clearer. He was surprised I am able to collect enough rain for my orchids, but I do. People with large collections wince at the cost of purified water, and most RO water units waste half to two thirds of the water input.

He's flushing the RO through his plants 25 minutes after fertilizing. The medium is still wet. My speculation here, but the very low amounts of fertilizer we use are very soluble in water, and I would think the fertilizer not absorbed by roots will easily flush out. We do repot every 2-3 years, so I doubt there would be much buildup with this method. Those of us watering with pure water will have even less of this issue.

Many expert growers of all types of plant have told me that adjusting the pH of their water was the single thing that made the biggest impact on their plants. But it can't be done haphazardly - you need to measure carefully. If you have enough plants to mix fertilizer in a 5-gallon bucket, you probably should think in terms of acidifying, and using something other than lemon juice, unless you have lemon trees. N-pHuric acid is cheaper than fresh lemon juice!

I'm talking about acidifying because the vast majority of city dwellers, and most of those with wells, have alkaline water. Acid water leads to leaching of lead and other toxic metals from old pipes and solder, so most municipal water suppliers ensure the water is alkaline. Those of you with acid water may need to raise the pH with other methods, which I've never looked into.
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:06 PM
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Loads of great information. Thanks for compiling it!

Like others, I have a comment. For the average home grower, with anything resembling a budget, a reliable pH meter is an expensive luxury. The cheapest I've ever seen, that I would even remotely trust, are > $250. Most are $500/- $700. If it does not have calibration to two (minimum) standard pH buffers, and automatic temperature correction, I would not trust the meter. The $25 jobs on ebay I would also not trust. pH paper, or test kits with liquid reagents (pool supply or aquarium shop), are "good enough" and less costly for most of us. pH readings with paper or kits, to the nearest integer or half integer, are usually sufficient for making decisions.

Last edited by Orchid Whisperer; 02-19-2017 at 07:38 AM..
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