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  #11  
Old 12-09-2014, 11:44 AM
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Destruction through hybridization isn't that hard for you to grasp is it? If as you claim funalis is less picky than lindenii about where it grows, what's to stop it from growing in suitable lindenii habitat? I suggest you look into the dynamic between the native Eastern Bluebird and the introduced European Starling for the answer as to what happens when a generalist species is introduced into an environment in which it competes with a more specialized one. Then there's the threat caused by mere proximity of the alien pollen from a plant better able to adapt. I suggest you study chess to get into the habit of thinking at least a move or two ahead.
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subrosa View Post
Destruction through hybridization isn't that hard for you to grasp is it?
Either you didn't bother to read the post right before your first post in this thread...or you didn't understand it. If you didn't read it, then please do so. If you don't understand it, then please let me know.

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Originally Posted by Subrosa View Post
If as you claim funalis is less picky than lindenii about where it grows, what's to stop it from growing in suitable lindenii habitat?
I guess you missed the part where they both grow in Jamaica. Clearly they have different microhabitat preferences. Lindenii prefers to sit on the bottom deck of the bus and funalis prefers to sit on the top deck. In theory, an intermediate hybrid would prefer to sit on the middle deck. Florida has plenty of seats for them to sit on. Finding a wild orchid growing on a tree in Florida is the exception rather than the rule...and it's even more exceptional to be able to find a Ghost Orchid in the wild. If this wasn't the case then there wouldn't be any concern about poaching. Poaching is only a real issue when when we're dealing with scarcity. So if poaching is a real issue then it must follow that there are plenty of available microhabitats in Florida for Ghost Orchid hybrids and species.

The standard is for poaching Ghost Orchids not to be an issue. In other words, the standard is an abundance of Ghost Orchids. This standard can be achieved by introducing a variety of Ghost Orchids hybrids that would be adapted to a wide variety of (micro)habitats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subrosa View Post
I suggest you look into the dynamic between the native Eastern Bluebird and the introduced European Starling for the answer as to what happens when a generalist species is introduced into an environment in which it competes with a more specialized one.
Again, the Dendrophylax species have different habitat preferences, which you would know if you had bothered to take the time to look it up. And, as I argued, the closer a hybrid is to lindenii, the more likely it is that it will displace lindenii but the less it will matter.

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Originally Posted by Subrosa View Post
Then there's the threat caused by mere proximity of the alien pollen from a plant better able to adapt. I suggest you study chess to get into the habit of thinking at least a move or two ahead.
I should study chess? You should stop studying the underpants gnomes...

Step 1: Steal underwear
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit

Step 1: Introduce lindenii hybrids
Step 2:
Step 3: Destruction

What's step two? You can't make the first move in chess and then just proclaim "check mate". You have to actually make the moves. I think if you actually made the moves then you would realize that your "check mate" is completely unfounded.
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2014, 01:05 PM
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All of your tripe is for nought. Read Florida statute 581.083 in regards to introducing non native species. Although why should something as inconsequential as a law restrain genius such as yours......but in any case, go away ovanoshio.
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2014, 01:45 PM
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There's absolutely no point in arguing with epiphyte. I've never ever met anyone so in love with the electronic sound of their own voice.

It would be wonderful that he would study up on basic biology in addition to the game of chess. Then maybe these horrid ideas and obsession with hybridization would fade away.
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2014, 01:54 PM
epiphyte78 epiphyte78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subrosa View Post
All of your tripe is for nought. Read Florida statute 581.083 in regards to introducing non native species. Although why should something as inconsequential as a law restrain genius such as yours......but in any case, go away ovanoshio.
The point of this "tripe" is to determine whether anybody can explain why exactly it's "tripe". If nobody can explain in a thought out manner why it's "tripe" then I don't see why Florida wouldn't be willing to issue a special permit.

I'm ovanoshio in Ft Lauderdale, FL rather than epiphyte78 in Glendale, CA? Errr...you seem to be in the habit of reaching really wrong conclusions.
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  #16  
Old 12-09-2014, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by epiphyte78 View Post
The point of this "tripe" is to determine whether anybody can explain why exactly it's "tripe". If nobody can explain in a thought out manner why it's "tripe" then I don't see why Florida wouldn't be willing to issue a special permit.

I'm ovanoshio in Ft Lauderdale, FL rather than epiphyte78 in Glendale, CA? Errr...you seem to be in the habit of reaching really wrong conclusions.
Well then, aside from obvious physiological traits we have something in common. You possess a singular talent for drawing mistaken conclusions yourself. The issuance of any permit would hinge on you logically stateing the benefits, not on the lack of evidence that it won't work. That's how the real world works. I'm done playing with you. Feel free to continue playing with yourself.
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2014, 02:09 PM
epiphyte78 epiphyte78 is offline
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Originally Posted by isurus79 View Post
There's absolutely no point in arguing with epiphyte. I've never ever met anyone so in love with the electronic sound of their own voice.

It would be wonderful that he would study up on basic biology in addition to the game of chess. Then maybe these horrid ideas and obsession with hybridization would fade away.
You don't have to argue with me. Instead, you're more than welcome to use your excellent grasp of basic biology to translate this passage into ordinary English...

Quote:
Based on future projection of their ecological niche, and given that conditions suitable for these hybrid zones will exist, the hybrid zones can therefore be seen as a source of raw material for natural adaptive change [61,62]. In this light, the definition of species should better focus on traits that lead to adaptation and conservation efforts should be targeted towards evolutionary processes that generate taxonomic biodiversity instead of preserving the taxonomic entities beyond these processes [63]. Although this strategy cannot be applied to all organisms, it certainly provides a good framework for determining evolutionarily important units [63,64] that are worthy of protection and management in species with complex reticulate scenarios, such as those in the present investigation.
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphyte78 View Post
You don't have to argue with me. Instead, you're more than welcome to use your excellent grasp of basic biology to translate this passage into ordinary English...
I thought that many people here and in other forum have tried to tell you that you have relatively primitive understandings of biology. Nothing is wrong with the lack of knowledge; a person can't know everything in this world, and if you are willing, you can learn new things. But it is good to be able to communicate and what other people are trying to tell you (it is difficult to do it when you are inside of your own world).

It is great to have a "new" idea. But if it is not based on what is known, they usually fail (and are junk). I know that there are many lazy students, who try to skip the absorption of knowledge, and try to come up with new ideas.

It is also sad that people who have good intention, but don't have enough knowledge, could destroy our world. This tells us the importance of education for the future of humanity. I thought that this is the reason California invests significant amount of tax money on education.

I can guess that the level of biology eduction you had is fairly minimum. Please note that I'm not trying to be an elitist here; education is expensive, and not everyone in this world was fortunate enough to have an opportunity. It is not too late to learn about it. But as Steve mentioned, I would recommend you to learn more about basic biology, conservation biology, and evolution before you try to preach your fabulous ideas. It is an open forum, and you can say whatever you want. Most people here are not naive, but there could be some people who believe that everything you read on internet is true.

I'm sure you can easily find basic textbooks appropriate for your level in a used book store for cheap. But lots of textbooks are boring to read and lazy students can't master it by themselves. If you have high school or undergraduate degree, it may be a good idea to get some guidance through community college or some online courses.

Please don't take this as an insult. Once you get some fundamentals, you might be able to come up with a good idea which helps humanity. Don't give up.
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2014, 07:11 PM
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its pretty standard troll practice to attack the messenger and not the message. If you don't like what someone has to say, then don't reply. Easy principle to live by ?

epiphyte78 - there appears to already be a "laboratory" in progress in Jamaica. You should pursue this avenue and inform us what has happened there. Has there been a natural hybridisation of the species? Are both species co-existing ? How did both species get to Jamaica - was one 'introduced'? Has a pollinator adapted to the hybrid ?
............and so on....
You mentioned Jamaica, you should be able to relate what has happened there to either back up your idea or illustrate potential shortcomings - on a rational basis so that even someone who hasn't studied biology can understand .
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2014, 07:46 PM
epiphyte78 epiphyte78 is offline
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naoki, you have a better grasp of biology than I do? That could certainly be true. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this paragraph...

Quote:
Based on future projection of their ecological niche, and given that conditions suitable for these hybrid zones will exist, the hybrid zones can therefore be seen as a source of raw material for natural adaptive change [61,62]. In this light, the definition of species should better focus on traits that lead to adaptation and conservation efforts should be targeted towards evolutionary processes that generate taxonomic biodiversity instead of preserving the taxonomic entities beyond these processes [63]. Although this strategy cannot be applied to all organisms, it certainly provides a good framework for determining evolutionarily important units [63,64] that are worthy of protection and management in species with complex reticulate scenarios, such as those in the present investigation.
Can you translate it into ordinary English for those of us who are interested in learning?

In exchange, I'll learn you something. Whenever my friends who went to public schools say something stupid I like to joke with them that I want a refund on my tax dollars that were spent on public education. It's a joke because I can't get a refund.

Public education is simply a product and products improve when their funding depends on it. If you take consumer choice out of the equation, then the results are predictable...quality, quantity and variety all plummet. So given that public education is outside the domain of consumer choice...the problem really isn't the level of public education funding. The problem is that public education, like every other public good, is outside the domain of consumer choice.
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