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  #1  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:07 PM
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Cool Probiotic brews for plants

I want to discuss more about probiotic brews, but don’t wish to hijack Ray’s thread regarding the sad demise of a good probiotic. I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. Thus, putting it out here. Might be overly long, but I wanted to add the backstory as well.

When I was born we lived with my paternal grandparents until I was five. My parents both worked long hours, so almost all my time was spent with grandma. This was back in the days where one lived with extended family, all food was grown and canned or stored. All meat was butchered by two of grandma’s brothers (one pigs, one beef). We had our own chickens, geese, and fished during the summer.

We made our own cheese, yogurt, kefir, butter, etc. (another of grandma’s brothers did dairy cows). We had fruit trees, a vineyard, etc, and made our own sauerkraut (cabbage and turnip), wine, beer, whiskey, and a passed down secret recipe from the old country for catsup with forty ingredients. The list goes on. I’m sure you get the drift by now. We didn’t go to a grocery store for anything other than salt, flour, baking soda and powder, cinnamon, vanilla, etc.

My grandma spent her “spare” time growing any and every type of flower or plant she could get her hands on. She passed on her “recipe for fertilizer” to me (really probiotics) and I started assisted in making it when I was old enough to walk. It was a base mix, then when necessary we would add something else to the soil depending on what we were growing… like fish heads and egg shells and matches when we planted tomatoes. I’ve rarely bought fertilizer unless it was a convenience thing.

I’ve been reading all about brewing your own Inocucor, and find it interesting. I’m no microbiologist or scientist of any kind. Just an old gal with a green thumb, courtesy of my grandma and grandpa. I was researching all the technical names of the bacteria, fungi, whatever, and looking them up. Other than the kelp, every single ingredient is possibly in grandma’s concoction. To be measured on a scientific scale… oh heck no. I just know I’ve used it on everything for years, and for me it works.

It’s based on ingredients, but not really measured. Grandma (thus I) don’t cook by measurement, so the amount of ingredients are knowledgeable guesses. Stuff that goes in the recipe:

To one gallon pond water add
1 T Blackstrap molasses (has to be blackstrap)
1/2 cup milk or buttermilk (I’ve used pasteurized, but unpasteurized is better)
1 to 2 T kefir or yogurt. I usually use kefir
1 T wheat germ
1-2 T brewers yeast
* 1+ cups worm compost tea

I make it in five gallon batches in five gallon water coolers (like you see on construction trucks). Usually four at a time. I use RO water in winter, when I can’t convince my husband to go get a couple of buckets from the pond (or it’s frozen). When I use RO, I try to have on hand compost tea from the finished compost bed instead of pond water. Occasionally I throw in a little baking soda or Epsom salts. Oh, and minced garlic...that's my own addition, mostly because I give it to dogs now and then, plus husband is Italian.

Stir it up well, and let it sit. I try to stir it at least once a week for the first week or so, then I put the top on and let it sit as is. Stir again before filling up my water can.
Since I started using KelpMax, I put in 1T of it once per month. I like Subrosa’s idea about bentonite, and will likely add a bit. It’s in my koi pond, but it’s a good flocculent and likely is only on the pond bottom.

Sounds like a lot of work? Maybe. It’s just the way I grew up, so I don’t know any better.

I also use MSU-RO or KLite once or twice a month, when I remember.

Comments? Questions? Laughs?
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:22 PM
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Sounds like a lot of work, and it would take a little effort to determine even the likely microbes present, but I can see no reason it wouldn't have some positive effect.

I'd skip the baking soda at all costs. All it adds is sodium, and that's not really a good thing.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:01 PM
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So, I can't make that in my Insta pot?
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:12 PM
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First, I love the back story and I am truly envious that is was “born at the wrong time”

I think that the idea is awesome and I appreciate you sharing it. I am ‘pot committed’ to the inocucor route right now but I might do this once my supply runs out
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  #5  
Old 02-19-2020, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Sounds like a lot of work, and it would take a little effort to determine even the likely microbes present, but I can see no reason it wouldn't have some positive effect.

I'd skip the baking soda at all costs. All it adds is sodium, and that's not really a good thing.
What about the salt you mentioned as an ingredient in the original Innocucor fermentation? I figure to add 1 tsp per gal. of sea salt to my fermentation, mostly for trace elements. While it does contain appreciable amounts of calcium and magnesium along with many other elements, sodium and chlorine are the predominant elements.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Subrosa View Post
What about the salt you mentioned as an ingredient in the original Innocucor fermentation? I figure to add 1 tsp per gal. of sea salt to my fermentation, mostly for trace elements. While it does contain appreciable amounts of calcium and magnesium along with many other elements, sodium and chlorine are the predominant elements.
I'm not a fan of the sea salt used in Inocucor. What little benefit it would add in trace minerals I think would be negated by adding salt of any kind. I also don't understand why there's wheat extract in it, but maybe it's the same reason grandma used wheat germ? Not a clue.

---------- Post added at 02:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts View Post
First, I love the back story and I am truly envious that is was “born at the wrong time”

I think that the idea is awesome and I appreciate you sharing it. I am ‘pot committed’ to the inocucor route right now but I might do this once my supply runs out
I know, right? A lot of it sounds like work, but at least for me it was a much better life. I got so nostalgic while writing of it and thinking about my grandma. It was like I could hear her voice talking to me as we worked with the plants and cooked.

---------- Post added at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollythehun View Post
So, I can't make that in my Insta pot?
I think ya could, but it sure wouldn't be much quantity. I know how many orchids you have, remember?

Also, I know ya don't have a koi pond. Do you really want to be putting compost tea into the pot you eat out of?

---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Sounds like a lot of work, and it would take a little effort to determine even the likely microbes present, but I can see no reason it wouldn't have some positive effect.

I'd skip the baking soda at all costs. All it adds is sodium, and that's not really a good thing.
Well, I guess I neglected to mention when I add baking soda, it's for a foliar spray. It kills powdery mildew, spider mites, and a lot of different fungus that infect tomatoes.

I have no idea how one would go about determining the amount of microbes present. But I do know it does have the same microbes as all the main ingredients in Inocucor. Not "likely" but in reality.
Bacillus subtilis - milk, kefir, dairy products
Lactobacillus helveticus, casei, lactis, uplantarum, rhamnosus - milk, kefir, and buttermilk
Saccharomyces cerevisiae – brewer’s yeast
Rhodopseudomonas palustris - EM-1, pond water, earthworm/compost tea
Molasses - calcium, magnesium, potassium, and iron
And one can make a huge amount of it for a couple of bucks. Personally, I already keep all this stuff on hand anyway, and don't consider it a lot of work in the quantities I make it.

The thing one also needs to remember... I'll refer to your sourdough starter analogy... I have a sourdough starter that's got 65 year old starter in it from a baker in California. San Francisco sourdough to be exact. It's considered one of the top starters for "real deal" San Fran sourdough. But, sourdough starter picks up the microbes, buggies, whatever, from the air in its environment. After awhile, you have starter that has changed considerably from the original. You're no longer making "real deal" San Francisco sourdough. It depends on one's environment, just like anything else that's fermented. It's why one can make a wine with one year's grapes and it's excellent, and another year just mediocre.

It's surely not a knock on Inocucor. I've purchased some from ya before. That Inocucor will sooner or later be gone. It will change as it's used as a culture, and also has a shelf life. It's just a different way of looking at probiotics that have been used for hundreds of years.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:13 PM
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Subrosa - I have no idea of the amount of salt added to the Inocucor batch, but I seriously doubt is was much as a teaspoon/gallon.

WW - I wasn't taking it as a knock on the product at all. My "Don't know" comment was based upon the fact that "blending them" does not mean they will all survive. In fact, getting them to cooperate rather than eat and/or poison each other was the specific part of the technology that was unique to the ladies at Inocucor technologies.

The molasses is intended as a carbon source, not so much as a mineral additive.
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:16 AM
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Interesting. So I presume how they blended it and got all to play nicely I presume is a trade secret for them?

I hadn't heard of using molasses as a carbon source. Looked it up just a little bit, and it appears it's used for denitrification? Now that's an interesting aspect I need to get more familiar with. Thinking of the water garden and aquarium trade aspects. Hmmmm.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:55 AM
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Interesting. So I presume how they blended it and got all to play nicely I presume is a trade secret for them?

I hadn't heard of using molasses as a carbon source. Looked it up just a little bit, and it appears it's used for denitrification? Now that's an interesting aspect I need to get more familiar with. Thinking of the water garden and aquarium trade aspects. Hmmmm.
Various sources of organic carbon are used in the aquarium hobby, mostly in saltwater to remove nitrates and phosphates from the water. In nature the bacteria which do this live in anaerobic environments which can be tricky to safely maintain in aquaria. The use of organic carbon, normally ethanol provides an intermediary food source for bacteria which reduce nitrates and phosphates under aerobic conditions. Occasionally vinegar is also used where it's acidity isn't an issue.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:26 AM
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Various sources of organic carbon are used in the aquarium hobby, mostly in saltwater to remove nitrates and phosphates from the water. In nature the bacteria which do this live in anaerobic environments which can be tricky to safely maintain in aquaria. The use of organic carbon, normally ethanol provides an intermediary food source for bacteria which reduce nitrates and phosphates under aerobic conditions. Occasionally vinegar is also used where it's acidity isn't an issue.
And molasses is an organic carbon used in the aquarium industry as a treatment? The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering about using molasses in my koi pond. Similar to using barley straw or its extract to compete with string algae?
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